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  1. #41
    Senior Member Cranky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    what happens when an intj picks up the pieces and moves on? how do they do it and what is their thought/feeling process when they start to get it?

    also, i identify with everything orangeappled said, although i don't know why (since i'm infj).

    i sometimes find that i want someone who can perfectly manage my emotions for me, inspire me when i need it, comfort me when i need it, and challenge/tough love me when i need it. my Fness creates a desire for connection more than anything else, which sometimes feels like a desire for merging. without it i feel empty, plain, colorless, bland and tasteless, bored, unmotivated, uninspired, flat, etc. i'm introverted, but one of my greatest joys is in expressing myself and relating holistically as selves to another person. emotional articulation is different than logical articulation, although aesthetics grow out of both structures. i think nf types often have a strong calling or pull to a better possibility of emotional relationality, whereas nt types do T analysis first than start letting F wake up a little bit. when intjs do it 100% it is sudden and total. as an infj i feel like i am always holding some of it back, my N is looking forward to negative projections and positive other possibilities (feeling deprived). i am figuring out how this works as a result, bc these processes only distract from the fact that i am currently VERY happy in this situation when i am free and open. i am still young in significant relationships tho i am sometimes wise in my sneaking suspicions (for good and bad). i envy Fi users bc they seem so much more in touch with their actual personal values, whereas i often feel incapable of measuring accurately. their personal values measured in pain and in pleasure provide a yardstick for the cost of experiences. intjs grow out of extremely sensitive children, their inability to easily cope with Fi fallout is what creates their hard outer casing. just like infj wants and tries to act emotionless to hide the inner turmoil from others, and the huge sway of feeling, emotion, investment, care, and attention that emerges out of us when others are nearby and interact with us.

    i think some good points were brought up about how F folks who practice, especially Fi users, get some insulation bc they spend so much time feeling EVERYTHING. they are skilled, their overall emotional game is well developed, and they have emotional energies invested in many many directions that can adjust and get new emotional balance. intjs have far less investment in this area, have less solid foundation and anchorage, so the total disappearance once it spikes and supernovas tastes like death/dirt.
    Am tired and (forgivably) drunk, so will respond more fully later. The only thing I'll say now is this: either you INF types are intuitive, so you KNOW what you're doing to us poor helpless Thinking types, or you aren't, in which case nobody knows what we're doing here ;-)

  2. #42
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranky View Post
    Am tired and (forgivably) drunk, so will respond more fully later. The only thing I'll say now is this: either you INF types are intuitive, so you KNOW what you're doing to us poor helpless Thinking types, or you aren't, in which case nobody knows what we're doing here ;-)
    i'm not sure. Fi types are trustworthy and even better at seeming trustworthy so we Ni dom types trust them and let them in so we can soak up their sunshine rays and verbal eye squeezes. their feelings seem very real and present and tangible in the air, and since we can sense that, we trust that.

    F types open up and unlock parts of T types that they don't trust/feel comfortable with. the smart F types are able to allow the T types to reciprocate and open up their T. my intj s.o. and my entp best friend have made me a million times more logical than i had previously been. it's nice being more logical, i behave less poorly, erratically, and hysterically. making better decisions, etc. learning to think sequentially and causally is a challenge for F types, especially F doms like ifps. it's even worse for them in that way than infjs, tho unlike infjs they at least can properly read their own emotional temperature (who are more wildly adjustable overall, albeit slow to realize this). there are of course weird off-shoots and Fi is better at mimicking Ti directly than Ni is (since Ni is a perceiving function), but overall, T ease is further away from infp than infj.

    i know it seems pretty bad now, but intjs who do learn to use F well are amazing people.

  3. #43
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about that cranky.

    One thing I'll say is that I'm terrible at breaking up, and think other INFPs might be as well. I'm not quite sure why it is. Maybe the INFP drive for emotional authenticity means we can't stand feeling phoney, so once we realize we're not that into someone we want to get the breakup over and done with ASAP rather than pretending we still feel it.

    For me, that was usually my motivating force for breaking up, and my guiding force during the breakup was (sad to say) a self-protective desire to actively limit empathy. Possibly the stress of such situations is enough to flip INFPs into their ESTJ shadow (still not sure I believe in the concept of shadows), though that seems a bit harsh to ESTJs and very generous to INFPs.

    Again, sorry.

  4. #44
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It doesn't help that it is the natural way of an NFP to first get to know someone completely before feeling that they are right for us. We...do a thorough exam, you could say. And since Fi automatically demands an intense connection for that, it tends to push buttons that often in T's don't get pushed. You'd be wrong to think that this is something we do to harm you or hurt you. Or that we do it intentionally. Just like you are logical and to the point and efficient, and hurt people in the process, the same can happen becoz of our natural way of being. With time, we learn how to soothe that pain. You'll learn to be less abrasive, we'll learn to stay in a conflict situation and deal with it properly. It takes experience though.
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  5. #45
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What do you think about : "It is better to love and lose than not love at all" ?
    I personally believe that it's a complete lie. There are people whom I'd have given my life for whom I would prefer never to have met or known.

    Cranky, speaking from personal experience, alcohol doesn't really work. It just makes you feel more disgusted with yourself later on and reduces your productivity. Being understood by people, understanding people and empathy doesn't really work either. It just drags you further down into that blackhole. The best (and healthiest) solution IMHO is to find something else - an interest - to be OCD about, and healthily wean yourself off that when you naturally lose interest.

  6. #46
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    I am sorry you had to deal with a person like that Cranky. That sounds horrible.

  7. #47
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    It just drags you further down into that blackhole.
    This metaphor implies that it's possible to come out of a black hole--have you no scientific metaphor respect?!
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #48
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    Cranky, speaking from personal experience, alcohol doesn't really work. It just makes you feel more disgusted with yourself later on and reduces your productivity. Being understood by people, understanding people and empathy doesn't really work either. It just drags you further down into that blackhole. The best (and healthiest) solution IMHO is to find something else - an interest - to be OCD about, and healthily wean yourself off that when you naturally lose interest.
    I agree, very much.

    That's what I naturally do in a situation like that, because my brain forces me to focus on analyzing what happened rather than dwelling emotionally. Spending my time going through all the various systems I can describe things in terms of generally gets me weaned off it eventually.



    In case you're curious...

    INTP is to INFJ as INFP is to INTJ. That means the closest thing I can be left with by INTP is an addled mind and mental exhaustion, though I've found they're not likely to do this. This actually did happen to me once when an INTP tricked me into thinking they had learned exactly what principles human behavior operates on, and how to link it into MBTI.

    They ended up convincing me of a lot of correct-sounding, flawed ideas about MBTI that threw my typing and type perceptions off for months, and then convinced me to keep answering material and philosophical questions for his book, saying he'd link it all together with the main principle soon. Eventually, I realized that several of his ideas were flawed, and that he was using my ideas in his book... and I eventually stopped going along with it.

    I was fine emotionally, but my understanding about several topics was totally warped, and I went around making incredibly ridiculous, inaccurate statements any time I tried to use my mind. It ended up taking an ENTJ and an INTJ to sort of put it back together again.

    To give you an idea of how a mental wound might work... Let's just say I'm still freaked out by math. I find it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth when presented normally, because a teacher in 3rd grade told me numbers less than 0 didn't exist, and it caused me to have nightmares about an old-fashioned scale becoming so unbalanced on the right side (in the center was a 0) that it went vertical, and then plunged into an abyss. It sucked the world around it in as well, turning everything into a giant black hole. Every time I consciously think about math, I get the same disturbed feeling those dreams gave me. Unless an INFP grosses me out, of course, in which case I find myself obsessing over solving random arithmetic problems.

    I'm more able to patch up newer ones, but the old ones... they still affect me.

  9. #49
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    This metaphor implies that it's possible to come out of a black hole--have you no scientific metaphor respect?!
    I meant rabbithole.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    INTs when they fall, they almost free fall. It's a scary on several levels and also kind of wonderful if you can handle it.
    *nods*

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