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  1. #11
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post



    If you don't mind my asking, and not to bring up any bad memories, but what sorts of dreams? Pleasant, memories, nightmares...?
    All kinds really, nightmares where memories were being replayed out or deeper fears were being realized, pleasant dreams in which we were together and he was everything I wanted him to be, which always left me feeling sick with myself the following morning.

    It's hard because from the sounds of the way he is trying to launch back into life, he is probably internally beating himself up pretty hard over the fact that he keeps finding himself missing her. I used to be pretty angry with myself, especially since I had so many real reasons to hate him yet mourned the passing of our relationship, it merely added to my view of myself as weak and broken in some way.

    My friend, who had been through something similar herself was great at making me stop hating myself for this weakness. I could call her anytime, day or night, home or at work and she would help me through it. She never made me feel like I was weak for hurting, and she never made me feel like I had to be here, in the now, coping with my loss.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

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  2. #12
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post

    The only thing that will work for your friend is time [...]Time and a good friend, which it sounds like you are.
    I agree. I mean, we might try other stuff like drinking and distractions, but what really helps is time. I find that when I get stuck on something I talk about it a lot. The best is having an ISTP to talk to because you guys don't really get super sucked into it--you sort of magically temper my emotional insanity (for some reason we don't really freak you out). The fact that you do not seem to get exhausted by our endless stream of rampant emotionalism and are able to handle it is definitely valued.

    Eventually, I do just think our crazy thoughts are righted and it just goes away.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Clonester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    What the--?

    ENFPs don't have Se. Whatever you're calling his Se is something else.

    So, there's this ENFP, he broke up with some chick, it haunts him... why? Closure? Bah. Closure for an ENFP is knowing that he did the right thing, the thing that promotes most good in this world. If he thinks he did harm or hurt and can't rectify it... or if he can't find the balance between his feeling and his knowledge.

    Fi questions are needed. Like, "You still love the girl?" Then listen to the evasive confused rant and pick out another Fi question, but one related to action. Like, "Well, if you still love her, you should..."

    Se, my ass. Fi with a Te shot in the arm, and maybe a spoonful of Si to compare what's real with what he thinks. Alternatively he could just go on Ne rampage looking for new pretty things to make him feel better.


    Clarify feeling. Choosing this "Se" is escape.
    Wow, you are very wrong. Many ENFP's often use Se. It is what makes us direct and seek action. Se is used more than Te. It's introverted sensing that ENFP's rarely use and are very bad at.
    ENFP Male: E-74% N-95% F-58% P-84% 3w2
    "I feel there are two people inside me - me and my intuition. If I go against her, she'll screw me every time, and if I follow her, we get along quite nicely." -Kim Basinger

  4. #14
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    So, there's this ENFP, he broke up with some chick, it haunts him... why? Closure? Bah. Closure for an ENFP is knowing that he did the right thing, the thing that promotes most good in this world. If he thinks he did harm or hurt and can't rectify it... or if he can't find the balance between his feeling and his knowledge.
    Too painfully true.

  5. #15
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clonester View Post
    Wow, you are very wrong.
    Am not.

    Many ENFP's often use Se. It is what makes us direct and seek action.
    Does not.

    Se is used more than Te.
    Isn't.

    It's introverted sensing that ENFP's rarely use and are very bad at.
    Me too. These days, now that I'm paying attention, I am aware of relatively consciously using Si. Literally, perhaps 15 seconds worth per day. I exaggerate not. And it always feels odd and out of place when it happens. A memory, a comparison of some scene to an earlier scene, a rising up of lost, past information. It's wrong and upsetting.

    If this is the experience I have of consciously using the 8th function, how are you guys getting away with it so easily?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #16
    Senior Member Clonester's Avatar
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    Socionics does a much better job at explaining how each personality uses each function than MBTI. I'm sure you're thinking that ENFP's use Te more because it's the tertiary function. But HOW different functions are used is more important than an order. An ENFP uses Se whenever they (we) are not using Ne. It causes me to be direct with people when the situation calls for it and take action. And ENFP's are aware they are lacking in it so they work on improving it. Thus I use my Se frequently, just not nearly as frequent as Ne. An ENFP uses Te to gain knowledge of their interests. So it is commonly used but in a different way.

    You also need to research Se a bit more. It's a function that allows a person to know how much force or influence is needed in a present situation. It causes direct behavior. So you are saying that the function that causes direct behavior DOES NOT cause direct behavior?
    ENFP Male: E-74% N-95% F-58% P-84% 3w2
    "I feel there are two people inside me - me and my intuition. If I go against her, she'll screw me every time, and if I follow her, we get along quite nicely." -Kim Basinger

  7. #17

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    I am also stuck in this state where I desperately want to get over my ex cheating on me, and dumping me for some chick he had never met but talked to online for 5 years, without a warning or anything. I know he did me wrong, and as much as part of me hates him for what he did, a part of me also misses what we had. I keep struggling with these two emotions and I just know I need to get over this to move on and be happy. It's not as easy as something you can just block it. It comes in waves and it haunts me.

    I guess you could say, that most ENFP's have a hard time letting go and cling onto negative experiences and sort of relive them in their mind, torturing themselves. Not sure why... I do this all the time with various events... wish I didn't... but I can't really stop myself from thinking something once it's in your mind.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Am not.



    Does not.



    Isn't.



    Me too. These days, now that I'm paying attention, I am aware of relatively consciously using Si. Literally, perhaps 15 seconds worth per day. I exaggerate not. And it always feels odd and out of place when it happens. A memory, a comparison of some scene to an earlier scene, a rising up of lost, past information. It's wrong and upsetting.

    If this is the experience I have of consciously using the 8th function, how are you guys getting away with it so easily?
    Thanks, this helps me in understanding what I think I see and kinda ties into other things in an ENFP Sorry, thinking out loud.

  9. #19
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    All kinds really, nightmares where memories were being replayed out or deeper fears were being realized, pleasant dreams in which we were together and he was everything I wanted him to be, which always left me feeling sick with myself the following morning.

    It's hard because from the sounds of the way he is trying to launch back into life, he is probably internally beating himself up pretty hard over the fact that he keeps finding himself missing her. I used to be pretty angry with myself, especially since I had so many real reasons to hate him yet mourned the passing of our relationship, it merely added to my view of myself as weak and broken in some way.

    My friend, who had been through something similar herself was great at making me stop hating myself for this weakness. I could call her anytime, day or night, home or at work and she would help me through it. She never made me feel like I was weak for hurting, and she never made me feel like I had to be here, in the now, coping with my loss.
    Urgh... yeah, sounds awfully familiar. I was just curious... because he doesn't tell me every detail (I'm gonna guess because he feels guilty that he's talking about himself all the time, even though I insist I'm interested), and I'm trying to understand him through this means. He's also had a dream where he's searching for both of his serious ex's behind rocks, and they keep running away... He seems to love and hate the concept of being in a relationship. He confesses he likes me in his life because I provide a pseudo type girlfriend role, but ask nothing of him.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  10. #20
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clonester View Post
    Socionics does a much better job at explaining how each personality uses each function than MBTI.
    Specifically for ENFP, you mean this wikiscion monstrosity which explains ENFp as Ne/Fi/Se/Ti(/Si/Te/Ni/Fe)? I read it. That's no space station.

    I observe, particularly also looking at the INTp description, that Socionics describes each type's behaviour well enough, and does it for each type in 8 sections. That those 8 sections typically have function names as titles has, literally 50 percent of the time, nothing to do with anything. For ENFp, in the third section they say:

    3. Extroverted sensing

    IEEs have the capability and ability to be direct and firm with others in such activities as giving direct commands or making categorical statements about things perceived. However, the period of time when this occurs in an IEE is generally short-lived. As soon as the IEE starts to think about and starts to seriously consider the negative connotations of their directness or firmness ( ), for example, fear of instilling fear in another person in such a way that it would cause the person to be timid to or even scared to approach the IEE thereby distorting the personal bonds the IEE has with the person ( ), the IEE will back away from making such statements. Therefore these direct and categorical statements are quite difficult for an IEE to make, even if the IEE understands the benefits of being direct or firm with others, such as the benefits of being firm or direct with children in parenthood.


    (^This is the process of Ne+Te being overridden by Ne+Fi.)

    If an IEE is directly challenged or if an IEE observes a task a person demonstrates that is subsequently performed by the IEE or a group that the IEE is in (such as a teacher showing a classroom how to put together a widget, and the classroom then is instructed to put together their own widget), the IEE will consciously want to show their propensity and ability in performing the task as good as, if not better or faster than the original person or at least better than the group that the IEE is in. Anything less is considered a failure. IEEs will want to show proficiency in any task that is given to them, even if novice failure is understood. This, again is to demonstrate visibly to others that "I can do it" or "I can do this satisfactorily". Failing at accomplishing this and then subsequently being shown how to do the task is embarrassing for the IEE since they feel like they "should" have been able to accomplish the task if they were shown how to do the task at least once.

    (^Immature Si running under Fi+Te. You can do a task that has been demonstrated, one you learned, one you saw others do first? Why do SFJs insist on lessons before they consider themselves able to do something? Si.)

    IEEs will struggle with things that require sustained willpower and self-motivation. Because of fluctuating interest levels in self-pursuits, these tasks are difficult to sustain. These tasks include (but are not limited to) staying motivated to keep a workout regimen, sticking with a diet, sticking to a routine of doing a particular errand at the same time periodically, and other similar tasks. If the willpower is not there, it cannot be artificially manufactured to get the IEE to "push through". Concordantly, attempts by other people to get the IEE to "push through" is met with resistance. Though, it may be that the IEE will heed the call begrudgingly, this is not sustainable; the IEE will find a way out if this external push persists.

    (^and because they don't give a damn about sensing much at all, especially not extraverted sensing. People who actually use extraverted sensing ENJOY PHYSICAL PURSUITS JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BEING PHYSICAL!!!)

    I'm sure you're thinking that ENFP's use Te more because it's the tertiary function. But HOW different functions are used is more important than an order. An ENFP uses Se whenever they (we) are not using Ne. It causes me to be direct with people when the situation calls for it and take action.
    And here you're referring to this corruption, right? I recognise their description of "Se" when it works in 4th position, and I observe that their Ni/Te character, the ILI doesn't have Se in the fourth position! And I don't recognise any of their other "Se" descriptions.

    Socionics is good at describing behaviour. Do they ever anywhere describe functions in isolation? If they did, they'd have to re-write their entire naming convention. And it'd be Jungian.

    I want to thank you for allowing me to find out just how screwed a theoretical system socionics really is. Great at descriptions; stupidly, heinously, corruptly bad at naming those descriptions.

    And ENFP's are aware they are lacking in it so they work on improving it. Thus I use my Se frequently, just not nearly as frequent as Ne. An ENFP uses Te to gain knowledge of their interests. So it is commonly used but in a different way.

    You also need to research Se a bit more. It's a function that allows a person to know how much force or influence is needed in a present situation. It causes direct behavior. So you are saying that the function that causes direct behavior DOES NOT cause direct behavior?
    Se subordinate to an extraverted judging function allows a person to try thinking they know what physical configuration of stuff will achieve their goal for today. It's sensing, for christ's sake. It's not judgment. It's observing the physical world as it is right now, and seeking further physical input.


    Step away from Teh Soshi1niks. Their type descriptions are very insightful. Their model theory is shit.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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