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  1. #1
    Member MmmCrazy's Avatar
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    Unhappy ENFJ/ISTP - Clinging to an ideal?

    Hello, I'm a 20-year-old ENFJ and I just need a diary to spew into at the moment.

    After being hurt in a previous relationship with an emotionally-abusive INTJ, I decided to swear off romantic relationships for a time and just focus on friendships. This is very hard for me but I found my resolve in the idea of an ideal partner. I wrote down a specific description of a person (perhaps too specific) that had every quality I considered desirable and then told myself not to date anyone else until I find him. One of the qualities that comes to mind is that I'd like a guy who doesn't drink.

    Unfortunately, my friendliness attracts way too many romantic interests. (I never thought this would be a problem, the ugly duckling is a story I've always associated myself with!) After feeling awful about turning down some really great guys that just had one or two things wrong with them (i.e. One who drinks only on occasion, or one who keeps inviting me to parties), I started to doubt my ideal. Love is, after all, a give and take, so shouldn't I be bending to meet his needs as well?

    I finally gave in and started dating an (DUN DUN DUN) ISTP. He came after me after we randomly spent a night out (bowling! we keep it clean haha) because we were both just completely bored. Soon after we were dating, though for me it was very reluctant at first because I saw a problem with him. He too would go to parties and get drunk, but only with close friends and not very often. I had no sense of any of this typology stuff at the time, and subconsciously tried to start changing him/enforcing my own rules. He was very warm, loving, incredibly patient and didn't want me to change, but when I showed up at one of his friend's 21st birthday parties rather unamused he realized that I was trying to put him in a box. He immediately turned cold and got rid of me.

    I was heartbroken. He had been so warm and patient that I couldn't understand what had brought about this sudden change. Months went by without seeing him and I finally realized that he has to go out and party and be his wild ISTP self in order to function, and that I was cruel to ever try to enforce rules on him. I also realized (because his friends had told me) that he NEVER let people in romantically, and that I was very special to him. This further broke my heart because I realized what I'd done wrong.

    I expected never to see him again, but as fate would have it he keeps coming back into my life. At first he was very excited to see me again, which confused me because I was still under the impression that he hated me. Eventually we struck up a conversation and I felt like he was really opening up to me again. After a few weeks apart we met up again at a social gathering but he pretty much ignored me and was laughing and talking with other girls. I guess he's moved on. This saddened me again, but THE NEXT DAY, I realized I'm back to having a guys on my tail again, two of which happen to be ISTPs. (Whoops, no time to feel lonely for the ENFJ... but I still do...)

    Now I'm confused. I know what I did wrong in a relationship with an ISTP, so should I use that knowledge to pursue one of these guys? (Both of which drink, but only socially... pfhaha why can't I win) Or... do I just ignore them both and stick to my ideal?

    I kind of get this feeling that I get a lot more accomplished just by ignoring romance and being everybody's friend. It's true that when I'm in a romantic relationship I'm not as open and loving with *everybody* because I'm trying to focus on one person. But it's hard to ignore romance! Especially when so many people come after me. So do I choose to be alone and serve everyone or pick one person... even if they might suddenly grow cold and throw me out?

    Haaaa, sorry if this is a lot of silly complaining. (And a LOT of questions... I really don't think there's just one topic here to discuss, but I figured I'd give you guys a lot to gnaw on.) I trust your advice very much!

  2. #2
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    It's fine to have standards for a relationship, everyone has those. But the drinking one, eh, I don't think you should turn people down for any drinking, but if it has a bad influence on their life then that is definitely understandable (I think the same thing). You should probably explain to him what you think about drinking, and the things that worry you about people who drink. If he likes you, then you can negotiate. But if it's just socially and with friends, then everything should be fine. Drinking only really becomes a problem in my opinion if a large amount of money gets invested in it and they are getting smashed daily, either alone or with people. I totally agree with you when you want to avoid people who drink a lot, but social drinking just really isn't a bad thing.

    What gripes do you have with alcohol and people who drink? What is the core issue? Was it due to someone in your past who drank a lot and had lots of various issues because of it?

    And yes, if you pursue one of these guys then keep in mind that if they do something against one of your standards that if you don't tell them what they are THEY WON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE MESSING UP!

    I need more specifics.

    But yeah, just use the search function on this forum and you can find ENFJ and ISTP threads, there are plenty of ISTP/ENFJ relationship threads floating around here.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #3
    Member MmmCrazy's Avatar
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    You are awesome, I didn't think anyone would be able to make anything out of my post, haha.

    To be honest, both of my parents are heavy drinkers which is why I'm so wary around drunk people. I just need to learn to loosen up, I suppose, but it's tough. I never want to put someone in a box again, though, especially not a free-spirited ISTP.

    And yes, if you pursue one of these guys then keep in mind that if they do something against one of your standards that if you don't tell them what they are THEY WON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE MESSING UP!
    True! Good point!

    I've looked at a lot of the ISTP/ENFJ relationship threads already, actually. I can't look at them too much without missing my old boyfriend, but at least there's two new guys to choose from. (But which to choose...)

    Also, other ENFJs, do you guys ever feel like you have to choose between loving one person and loving the whole world?

  4. #4
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    I just need to learn to loosen up, I suppose, but it's tough. I never want to put someone in a box again, though, especially not a free-spirited ISTP.
    Maybe I'm being idealistic (which I'm sure you don't want to hear now) but there are ISTPs out there who don't drink/get drunk.

    We cant tell you to get past your preference of wanting to date someone who gets drunk. It's not up to us, it's up to you to decide what you prefer and are attracted to in a relationship.

    I dated someone who never drank at all (kinda toooo strict about it) and also dated someone who drank socially and/or usually got drunk at big parties. I realized that I don't want a guy who drinks to get drunk--not even if they do it socially sometimes. Having a drink or two out is fine with me but-- what what is YOUR standard.

    There are things I would prefer in a person I'm dating, and there are also things I NEED THEM TO HAVE. Things that are deal breakers. If I see a red flag in the beginning of a relationship, I end it. Why put yourself through the pain later on if you know it won't work...

    don't compromise something that is close to your heart, especially something that brings apart a lifestyle... If you see red flags (whatever they may be) in these 2 potential ISTPs, is it worth it?

    Only choosing to date blue-eyed people is a physical preference which doesn't involve their personal (and yours if you're dating) life.. but getting drunk does.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Clonester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MmmCrazy View Post

    Unfortunately, my friendliness attracts way too many romantic interests. (I never thought this would be a problem, the ugly duckling is a story I've always associated myself with!) After feeling awful about turning down some really great guys that just had one or two things wrong with them (i.e. One who drinks only on occasion, or one who keeps inviting me to parties), I started to doubt my ideal. Love is, after all, a give and take, so shouldn't I be bending to meet his needs as well?
    When you say drinks on occasion, do you mean they drink moderately on occasion, or only get drunk once in a while?
    ENFP Male: E-74% N-95% F-58% P-84% 3w2
    "I feel there are two people inside me - me and my intuition. If I go against her, she'll screw me every time, and if I follow her, we get along quite nicely." -Kim Basinger

  6. #6
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    Lookin4theBestNU married an ISTP, and she's happy as hell.

  7. #7
    Member MmmCrazy's Avatar
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    I mean they only get drunk once in a while.

    Geesh, I wish I didn't make such a big deal out of stuff like this. I really, really do. I like what you have to say, 2xtreme. Maybe I should just wait this out. :\

  8. #8
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Hey, girly. I have some experience in this area (as BlackCat said, plenty of ISTP/ENFJ threads on the board for your reading pleasure). As far as a shadow pairing goes, this one seems to work out well even when several others don't. Can't say why.

    I've known many ISTPs over the years that didn't drink at all or didn't drink to the point of drunkenness because they felt the loss of personal control was repugnant. Granted, I've known others to shake the roof down as a catharsis. My own stance is no drinking or social drinking only because I come from a background of family alcoholism and I find drunk people to be altered and scary. If you aren't okay with it, just accept that fact and find one who feels the same as you do.

    I've dated ENTPs too who have the general air of libertines, and many can be, but I found one (a few actually) who liked to have a good time, yet had no taste for alcohol.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  9. #9
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    I've dated ENTPs too who have the general air of libertines, and many can be, but I found one (a few actually) who liked to have a good time, yet had no taste for alcohol.
    ENTPs

  10. #10
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    ENTPs
    They make me too. Also, :steam:, , , and against my will.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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