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  1. #1
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    Default ENFJs accused of indecision and manipulation

    But is it really so? could it be that its not about indecision - but in fact there is a wider point to be made here. NFs have a natural thought process moving towards integrated society with austere and harmonious values which are at odds with values of the world currently in vogue. i.e. differentiating on race, color or even children moving away from parents when they grow up, or prioritizing between work/home with huge work loads on everyone - this is all disintegrative, resource intensive thinking-process or personal-values.

    Same happens when an NF is forced to decide between competing claims say friends acquaintances etc. it just goes against their natural integrative and harmonious thought process. You cant blame them the world is pretty screwy with the values going around in the economy and political sphere trickling down to personal relations atm.

    Agree/Disagree?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Happyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slumdogtrillionaire View Post
    Same happens when an NF is forced to decide between competing claims say friends acquaintances etc. it just goes against their natural integrative and harmonious thought process. You cant blame them the world is pretty screwy with the values going around in the economy and political sphere trickling down to personal relations atm.
    I think it's very true - I mean the 'indecision'. I, for instance, for years have fought with myself - if I should follow 'my dream' against my parents' wishes or not. I did finally, but I felt very uneasy and I actually needed to distance myself from them, just to be able to decide.
    I think we take crazy amount of thing under consideration. We are also more screwed than ESFJs who rather try to harmonized what's verbalized and we have these crazy intuitions about what everyone thinks of us (so we basically strive for some impossible harmony between everybody).

    I apologize for a bit chaotic&personalized response. I'm quite emotional about this subject (I was writing exactly about it in my blog like.. yesterday ).
    Cool thread!
    "Act as though it was impossible to fail."
    Dorothea Brande

    I started a real blog!

  3. #3
    Junior Member ~~ENFJ~~'s Avatar
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    I would say there is one category of things in which I'm extremely decisive--issues of morality or value judgments--and one in which I am quite indecisive--issues of neutral moral value when my decision could affect others and I am unaware of what the others might want. So yes, I would say your theory on wanting harmony is quite accurate for me.

    Happyman's example of being caught between his parents and his desire to follow his dream is understandable to me, but not a quandary I would share. If I valued my dream (and being "my dream," I assume I would), I would easily choose to disregard my parents' opinions. I would try to please them as much as possible while pursuing my dream, but if I couldn't, I wouldn't regret it. But ask me where we should eat for dinner tonight and you likely won't get an answer out of me.
    Tilde
    Classic ENFJ woman--passionate, loyal, misunderstood
    -slightly expressed extroverted, intuitive personality
    -distinctively expressed feeling, judging personality

  4. #4
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    The ENFJs I know are very nice and good natured, and keep harmony in the air around them for sure.

    They are also, however a bit demanding.

    But anyone worth thier weight in salt is demanding in some capacity, so whatever. I'm good with ENFJs, we get along.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    The ENFJs I know are very nice and good natured, and keep harmony in the air around them for sure.

    They are also, however a bit demanding.

    But anyone worth thier weight in salt is demanding in some capacity, so whatever. I'm good with ENFJs, we get along.
    Butt kisser.

  6. #6
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biaxident View Post
    Butt kisser.
    That's easy to fix.

    INFPs are DOUCHEBAGS.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    That's easy to fix.

    INFPs are DOUCHEBAGS.
    Ow...that hurt my feewins...


    NOT!

    ...How can you talk with your lips glued to every available pair of glutes within a thousand miles?

    Oh wait...You're talking out your ass.



  8. #8
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biaxident View Post
    ...How can you talk with your lips glued to every available pair of glutes within a thousand miles?

    Oh wait...You're talking out your ass.


    I learned that in prison.

    :yim_rolling_on_the_

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I learned that in prison.

    :yim_rolling_on_the_
    Why am I not surprised?


  10. #10
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Never really sensed any indecision from ENFJs, if anything I think they have a wonderful amount of conviction in the endeavors they show to the rest of the world. A very active, very determined and intense presence is something I think they simply radiate, which makes uneasy people uncomfortable for whatever reason.

    The manipulation thing, they seem to get that tag. I've never noticed manipulation, however I think a common FJ expression of stress or pain is the "guilt trip." The similar NT expression is bitter criticism with the intent to hurt/embarrass. Other types may feel like that is manipulation, but everybody does it.



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