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  1. #11
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    I don't see a lot of indecision either, at least not in my ENFJ friend. More a matter of having the same problem as me, so smart and with so many different interests its hard to choose something. Otherwise they know exactly what they want and are hell-bent on getting it

    We've been having a discussion on the manipulation thing. I don't see it. You guys are too direct when dealing with a confrontation and getting what you want. I see manipulation as the other person not knowing what you're after. You get them to go along with what you want and they're completely clueless.

    My ENFJ friends will state exactly what it is they want up front and then use every advantage they can find to get it. I see that as more "Determination" and a sign of intelligence than actual "Manipulation".

  2. #12
    Senior Member Gewitter27's Avatar
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    ENFJs tend to be very Enneagram 2. Unhealthy-Low Average 2s are very manipulative.
    I 96% N 93% T 75% P 63% 5w4 sp/sx/so ILI
    Ti>Ne>Te>Ni>Si>Fi>Se>Fe
    I'm interested in what you percieve me to be. Johari/Nohari

  3. #13
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    I don't see a lot of indecision either, at least not in my ENFJ friend. More a matter of having the same problem as me, so smart and with so many different interests its hard to choose something. Otherwise they know exactly what they want and are hell-bent on getting it
    Haha, I can totally relate. I am an ENFJ and I would never ever EVER manipulate someone consciously. I am totally against controlling someone else or making them feel like I pushed them to something they didn't want. I feel absolutely terrible if I accidently run over someone's feelings.

    My personal life on the other hand is a completely different story. lol. I know exactly what I want for myself and I see no reason why I can't get it. I set a very high ideal for myself, and expect to be able to reach it (and often do after hours of effort and endurance). Sometimes adult advisor friend type people joke around when I tell them what I plan to do saying it's an idealistic dream, but half the time I actually end up doing it or learning halfway down the road to be happy with 75% of my dream for now.

    I suppose I do have trouble making certain decisions, if they have to do with relationships, or if I have several great opportunities and I don't know which one will best lead me to my end goal. I worry the most about hurting other people's feelings if I have to correct them or teach them.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynesneg View Post
    Haha, I can totally relate. I am an ENFJ and I would never ever EVER manipulate someone consciously.

    I don't think the healthy ones ever do. I see little indecisiveness as well. Oh demanding, yes they can be but even that's not much of an issue.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #15
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I don't think the healthy ones ever do. I see little indecisiveness as well. Oh demanding, yes they can be but even that's not much of an issue.
    Well that makes me feel good. I've read in profiles how ENFJs tend to manipulate people and it troubles me to think I might do that.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Coeur's Avatar
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    The healthy ones probably do not manipulate, but the handful that I have known have.

    The most recent example: I was mad at my friend. To guilt me into dropping the issue, she told me that two of her friends were dying of cancer. This turned out to be a boldfaced lie.

    Obviously, not healthy behavior. But, that's just one of many examples. They don't seem to handle conflict very well.
    Everybody needs love.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    the manipulators must be the INTJs feigning E and F ness
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
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  8. #18
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Coeur's right; I did not handle conflict well when I was younger. I do now. It's part and parcel of life--the sooner you accept that, the easier it will be.

    Bold-faced lie? Wow, that ENFJ is immature and lacking creativity. Could be that your friend knew you could see through her so well and felt like that was her last resort.

    Not saying that's "okay" behavior at all, just saying that I used to be more creative than that.

    -Fuzzy
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynesneg View Post
    Haha, I can totally relate. I am an ENFJ and I would never ever EVER manipulate someone consciously. I am totally against controlling someone else or making them feel like I pushed them to something they didn't want. I feel absolutely terrible if I accidently run over someone's feelings.

    My personal life on the other hand is a completely different story. lol. I know exactly what I want for myself and I see no reason why I can't get it. I set a very high ideal for myself, and expect to be able to reach it (and often do after hours of effort and endurance). Sometimes adult advisor friend type people joke around when I tell them what I plan to do saying it's an idealistic dream, but half the time I actually end up doing it or learning halfway down the road to be happy with 75% of my dream for now.

    I suppose I do have trouble making certain decisions, if they have to do with relationships, or if I have several great opportunities and I don't know which one will best lead me to my end goal. I worry the most about hurting other people's feelings if I have to correct them or teach them.
    the decision making is tough when all options are good or close. and yes why cant i ever break up?
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
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  10. #20
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slumdogtrillionaire View Post
    and yes why cant i ever break up?
    Ahaha! That is so me. I thought about breaking up a year ago, and tried it for a month but was miserable. I know I should break up eventually, but the best way in my opinion will be to move away. I won't be able to do that for awhile, so another year it is. /shrug. We both greatly enjoy the companionship and neither wants any great commitment right now.



    The most recent example: I was mad at my friend. To guilt me into dropping the issue, she told me that two of her friends were dying of cancer. This turned out to be a boldfaced lie.
    Obviously everyone has a different perspective, however the weird thing is that conflicts directly with the J and strong sense of trust, honesty, and dependability, no?

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