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  1. #21
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamp View Post
    As I understand, fives seek to understand things, in hope that they can become more competent. Sevens seek to try lots of things, in hope that they will find what they really want.
    I test as a 7w8, but I have a huge knack for researching and exploring a million angles before I make certain decisions. I don't know what decisions those are or how I determine when to make a giant leap, and when to think things through indefinitely. The process, rather or not I act on impulse or not, seems randomly and emotionally driven.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  2. #22
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sad Lounge View Post
    I think the problem is that since P's aren't goal-oriented, they don't know what they want. They do know what they don't want or like, and that's where the perfectionism comes in. And since they can't motivate themselves the way J's can, they stop. They don't have the will-power to push themselves through to the end. Once the inspiration is gone, the action is gone, and they move on to something else, and the cycle repeats. This can also be attributed to their impulsivity.
    Any thoughts?
    I don't think it's that we can't motivate ourselves the way a J can. It's more that we see no reason to. Ps are often risk taskers and rebels with very strong wills. Our desire for perfectionism may actually stem from the strength of our wills, not the lack of them.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    ^ perfectionism probably stems from the fact that as kids our view of the world is narrow and we focus single mindedly on one thing, impress others, get our admiration and try repeating this. type 3

    as we grow older so many things come into our focus that we try and repeat this this strategy on everything. so we end up spreading ourselves too thin. type 7

    we just need to sort out whats imp and apply the type 3 behaviour again. refocus. let the admiration flow back and we'll move out of the rut.
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
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  4. #24
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sad Lounge View Post
    I think it needs to be pointed out that Perfection is an illusion. An impossible standard. A great way to drive yourself insane. I'm such a J, that I'm going to have a hard time understanding a lot of you "P"s. I thought Perfectionism was a J trait. J's usually are very goal oriented with very high standards. I know that I would get frustrated with myself if I thought I wasn't putting enough effort into something, because I set impossibly high standards for myself. I was the kind of kid who would get a 97% on a test and obsess about the 3 questions I got wrong instead of the 97 I got right. I wouldn't give myself enough credit.

    I thought P's didn't care enough to be perfectionists. They seem so easy-going and flexible, that I could see them going "That's good enough."

    I think the problem is that since P's aren't goal-oriented, they don't know what they want. They do know what they don't want or like, and that's where the perfectionism comes in. And since they can't motivate themselves the way J's can, they stop. They don't have the will-power to push themselves through to the end. Once the inspiration is gone, the action is gone, and they move on to something else, and the cycle repeats. This can also be attributed to their impulsivity.

    Any thoughts?
    yeah...totally need to care enough..be inspired in some way...and we do have goals...they're just a different sort perhaps...but yes if i set a goal or am inspired to do something...i want to do it exactly the way i think it ought to be done...or i'll blow it off...but i can get quite pissy about it if it's important to me.

    this does not pertain to any sort of life maintenance type task usually.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #25
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slumdogtrillionaire View Post
    ^ perfectionism probably stems from the fact that as kids our view of the world is narrow and we focus single mindedly on one thing, impress others, get our admiration and try repeating this. type 3

    as we grow older so many things come into our focus that we try and repeat this this strategy on everything. so we end up spreading ourselves too thin. type 7
    Hm, I rarely feel like I'm doing enough though; although, when I list out everything I'm doing and all the things I've accomplished in short periods of time, I do see a different story. It's almost like my view of my own actions is out of sync with what I'm actually doing. I think it has a lot to do with what Lady X said(I think). A lot of Ptype focus is not valued in mainstream society, so we grow up often hearing that we're lazy or unmotivated, when really that's not true. We come to believe it though, so we drive ourselves mad trying to be "better than", without even knowing it.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sad Lounge View Post
    I could see them going "That's good enough."
    I often get criticized for not 'half-assing' things enough. And I would say I have achieved perfection at various points in my life, not that perfection cannot also be 'impossible'.

    Your post comes off as a bit snarky. No need to apologize, just is not great for your image.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    A lot of Ptype focus is not valued in mainstream society, so we grow up often hearing that we're lazy or unmotivated, when really that's not true. .
    whether valued or not atleast work will get accomplished once the perfectionism is either applied to one task or a relaxed standard is adopted in all tasks simulataneously

    "we grow up" - this does show experience of kids being admired for their work and eventually spreading thin holds water... solution might lie in exploring your own past and figuring out till what age this strategy worked and at what point it started to fail and why. once thats done u'll be able extricate yourself and get more work done regularly both what u value and whats valued in mainstream.
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
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  8. #28
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    ^^ that post bugs me...just sayin...

    that attitude of needing to do it the "right" way..blech

    people just have different strengths ya know...
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #29
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    ^i agree with u there r many ways i just suggested one of em, a bit clinical perhaps.
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
    O:C:E:A:N :: 65:69:59:57:9

  10. #30
    Senior Member Bushranger's Avatar
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    P ~=
    Breadth first search
    Research problem space exhaustively before progression
    Evaluate return -> do stuff
    Minimise wasted effort

    J ~=
    Depth first search
    Research problems as they arise
    Do stuff -> evaluate return
    Minimise wasted time
    I'll get you my pretty, and your little hermit crab too!

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