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[INFJ] INFJ + ENFP = Transcendental Romance. INFJ + ESTJ = Duality. Any thoughts?

finalfantasy

New member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
6
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I would like to get as many inputs as possible from you guys.

Socionics states that duality is the most rewarding relationship because it satisfies both partners' needs for completeness. Stages in this relationship also vary from being shaky to unbreakable (ONLY if there are mutual attractions and both partners have the same goals in life). I've met some ESTJs throughout my life, but they just don't seem to notice my presence (the introvert dual is supposed to fade in the background).

Regarding the ENFP: I LOVE ENFPs:wubbie:. I adore ENFPs:wubbie:. It's been my dream to end up with one, be it friendship or family life:yes:. I wish there could be more. But the 2 ENFPs that I met seemed very....distant. I even showed them my sincere intention to be friends. But oh well, maybe other ENFPs can explain about this, not just for romantic relationships but friendships as well:hug:.
I can still see how loving ENFPs are. They think far ahead and use feelings when making decisions, which can be seen as irrational. However, those are what make them dedicated to their relationships.

Your comments are appreciated. Thanks! :hug::)
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Go with whoever you're the most attracted to, don't decide based on type, don't get anyone insane (they will latch onto you and take advantage of you).

If you're attracted to an ESTJ you meet and s/he isn't insane, fine, go for it. Same for an ENFP.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
6,072
MBTI Type
ENFP
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7w6
An INFJ trying too hard isn't the best sight to behold. You will attract them by being yourself, not by wanting to date them because they are ENFP. They catch the phony in that right away. You also need to like an ENFP because of who they are, not because they fit an ideal you want or because it benefits you.

Your brain should click pretty well with an ENFP. That's what you need to develop to make it into an interesting relationship.

Your Jness and her Pness can end up being a problem. You will have to grow past being anal about stuff to enjoy her unique contributions to life and she will have to be willing to accept that you care more about "surface" stuff than she might. I think NF relationships can also be a bit needy with each other, which can become unhealthy.

eta: Oops, I don't know if you are female or male. I don't know much about male enfps or female infjs. :p
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I would like to get as many inputs as possible from you guys.

Socionics states that duality is the most rewarding relationship because it satisfies both partners' needs for completeness. Stages in this relationship also vary from being shaky to unbreakable (ONLY if there are mutual attractions and both partners have the same goals in life). I've met some ESTJs throughout my life, but they just don't seem to notice my presence (the introvert dual is supposed to fade in the background).

Regarding the ENFP: I LOVE ENFPs:wubbie:. I adore ENFPs:wubbie:. It's been my dream to end up with one, be it friendship or family life:yes:. I wish there could be more. But the 2 ENFPs that I met seemed very....distant. I even showed them my sincere intention to be friends. But oh well, maybe other ENFPs can explain about this, not just for romantic relationships but friendships as well:hug:.
I can still see how loving ENFPs are. They think far ahead and use feelings when making decisions, which can be seen as irrational. However, those are what make them dedicated to their relationships.

Your comments are appreciated. Thanks! :hug::)

Eh..I dunno. I don't really buy into all of the type-matching theories on the net. They're interesting theoretically, and I think there are some that tend to follow real-life trends/matches/chemistry, but it's ultimately very individualized.

It boils down to the fact that each person out there has their own preferences regarding what they desire out of a romantic partner, and the type of dynamic they want. There are a lot of introverts who prefer fellow introverts, and there are introverts who prefer extroverts. And you can go down the line with each of the other dichotomies - N/S, T/F, J/P.

If ENFP's and ESTJ's make you melt, go for them.

For me personally, I'm not at all drawn to ESTJ's for a romantic partner, and don't think I'd ever feel fulfilled in a longterm relationship or friendship with them. Nothing against them of course, it's just I don't think they're a terribly great complement for ME. I think ENFP's are great friends, and that's great if you would define them as 'transcendental romance'....but again, there's nothing cut and dry about any of this....to each their own. :yes: For me, I tend to be attracted to EN's, and ENT's in particular. xSTP's are crush-worthy, although I highly doubt longterm compatibility. ;)
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
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4
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sx/sp
Type match theories are nice to ponder, and I do find myself attracted to ENxPs, but I wouldn't say that they are the best for me. I've never been attracted to ESTJs, and I couldn't see myself being happy in a relationship with one, based on the ones I know. The only dichotomies I have a preference for are N and maybe P, although I could work with another xNxJ if we had similar priorities. But it really comes to down to the individual, and not their type.
 

workaholicsanon

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
39
MBTI Type
INFJ
INFJ and ESTJ are not duals unless by socionics the INFJ turns out to be an INFj. Usually MBTI INFJs are more INFp in socionics, the dual of which is ESTp.
I :wubbie: ESTP. (and I tend to prefer avoiding ESTJs).
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
Go with whoever you're the most attracted to, don't decide based on type,

An INFJ trying too hard isn't the best sight to behold. You will attract them by being yourself, not by wanting to date them because they are ENFP. They catch the phony in that right away. You also need to like an ENFP because of who they are, not because they fit an ideal you want or because it benefits you.

Eh..I dunno. I don't really buy into all of the type-matching theories on the net. They're interesting theoretically, and I think there are some that tend to follow real-life trends/matches/chemistry, but it's ultimately very individualized.


it really comes to down to the individual, and not their type.


Awww..... come on, you guys!

:rolli: to all of the above.

:zzz:

always the same old song......;)


Anyway, to answer the question.....




Regarding the ENFP: I LOVE ENFPs:wubbie:. I adore ENFPs:wubbie:. It's been my dream to end up with one, be it friendship or family life:yes:. I wish there could be more. But the 2 ENFPs that I met seemed very....distant. I even showed them my sincere intention to be friends. But oh well, maybe other ENFPs can explain about this, not just for romantic relationships but friendships as well:hug:.

Well, I don't know if I know any INFJs in real life.

I think my mom is an INFJ, but I'm really not too sure.

To be honest, I've found the INFJs on this forum to be somewhat challenging to get along with, but also generally very insightful and well worth getting to know.

Two NFs means a lot of sensitivity, and a fair amount of touchiness.

I'm an ENFP married to an INFP, and it requires a great deal of self-discipline to communicate effectively.

One of the rewards of our particular pairing is that we really do understand each other on a deep, spiritual level.

We really are soul-mates, that's for sure.

It's just that the aspects of marriage which require some dispassionate objectivity (like bills, parenting styles, budgeting, etc...) can be a real delicate issue.


I think that, while any two types can get along, the ENFP-INFJ combo has a lot going for it.

But, again, if my experience on this forum is any indication, it might get off to a rough start.

There seems to be a difference in sense of humor, from what I can tell.
 

fill

"Everything in its place"
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
507
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
753
I like ENFPs a lot, but I've always had trouble getting to know them right away. They're somewhat aloof in some senses, and it seems like the only way to know them is by pure coincidence.

I like ESTJs a lot, but if you're interested in one, realize they are much, much, much, much different from you.

But both of these types use Ne, which means finishing what's started can become a problem. I've had instances with both of them completely bailing out. It's a bit frustrating, and while I've had successful relationships with both of them, I advise you to be careful with your trust (both ESTJs I met, I opened up to very quickly). Actually... the only relationship I've had great success with that was cut off by distance was an ESFP. Huh.
 

ReadingRainbows

Cat Wench
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Messages
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ENFJ
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6w7
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sx/sp
Don't use type when dating. Don't! It places people in boxes! Boxes bad! But -

Check out the personal chemistry. Who do you like better, who do you have more in common with? Common interests and goals, and good communication make a relationship work.
 

Wild horses

New member
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This is interesting as very few people would regard ENFPs as aloof unless they are pursuing them romantically. It is my opinion that ENFPs that have deep feelings for someone may very well act colder and more aloof than usual! So be encouraged...
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
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Jan 3, 2009
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6,072
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ENFP
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7w6
Depending on the people it can also gives another interesting thing to discuss. Nothing is that absolute, either way.
 

revolve

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Jan 13, 2009
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243
This is interesting as very few people would regard ENFPs as aloof unless they are pursuing them romantically. It is my opinion that ENFPs that have deep feelings for someone may very well act colder and more aloof than usual! So be encouraged...

i concur with wild horses! it's something i hate about myself but absolutely cannot control
 

LadyJaye

Scream down the boulevard
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Nov 6, 2007
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INFJ's and ENFP's can have a super intoxicating dynamic. I appreciate how understood I feel, on a deep deep level, and it can be a very intense experience. I'm not sure if I get the "aloofness" comment about ENFP's, though I will say if I'm really interested in someone, I'll keep myself back a bit and circle them several times, to make sure that what I'm seeing is the real thing. A person will show up immediately on my radar, but I need time to assess them before I move in on their space, or let them move into mine. And, it has been my experience that INFJ's tend to keep their distance too - like they have to be sure I won't mangle them or something. :D But, then they pounce without warning. It's always a surprise, and I'm never sure what I said or did that finally made them feel safe enough to jump on me. :D

The ESTJ thing - my mother is ESTJ and my father is INFJ. They had SO much trouble communicating, my mother being the practical, feet on the ground person, and my father is always a little in the clouds. It was a horrible, very short marriage. I just think the dynamic would be too much work for too little dividend.
 

Chloe

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not sure have i met male INFJs (besides 20 years older guy, and we hated each other from beginning :D), but with female INFJs I really have awful expiriences. i was even thinking about opening thread about that, because I heard from couple other ENFPs how they dont get along with INFJs. It's just that I feel they are my complete opposites, in a bad way, everything they do i would do differently and we usually fight about moral stuff, besides STJs worst match for me.
 

finalfantasy

New member
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Dec 16, 2008
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INFJ
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Quote:
"Don't use type when dating. Don't! It places people in boxes! Boxes bad! But -

Check out the personal chemistry. Who do you like better, who do you have more in common with? Common interests and goals, and good communication make a relationship work."

Right. I'll keep that in mind:).

Quote:
"eta: Oops, I don't know if you are female or male. I don't know much about male enfps or female infjs. :p"

I'm a male btw.

In the end, two healthy individuals of any type can have a successful relationship if both are willing to work on it.
 

cafe

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I like my INTP, but I think gender dynamics can make a difference. I have to be the extroverted one and handle most external conflict (like calling the phone company to straighten out a billing mistake, etc) it is worth it to me because he is quiet, low-maintenance, and laid back. Plus, somebody has to be calm around here and it ain't gonna be me!
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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I like ENFPs but find that they have a habit of collecting more people than they have time to maintain friendships with. Every now and then they tend to clean house. They are very outwardly warm with acquaintances and friends, which can make you feel closer than you really are. Therefore they sometimes they have a tendancy to seem...fickle, even though I think they are sincere. They also do seem to like having some internal space that is private and to themselves - more than you might initially see. I also find the Fe (INFJ) vs Fi (ENFP) can sometimes be a challenge. However, I like them and think they're interesting, fun, great people.

I dated an ESTJ for five years. There were some amazing qualities that worked well with my personality. I was good at long term, big picture vision and he was good at present and practical details. He was very protective, service oriented, responsible, creative, take chargey, a great host, socially popular, good at being organized and helping me to be, an adventurous cook, a huge reader, good at teaching new skills, very competent and capable and so on. However, I found that we had major differences in outlook and communication. ESTJs have a very hard time being vulnerable and have a tendancy to not state much of what is happening internally. They also are very competetive and can feel easily threatened. They don't like it when people challenge their point of view and don't adopt it themselves. They abhor any kind of incompetence. They are very hard on themselves. They generally aren't likely to flex much to meet you, even if you flex to meet them. (Read the Ask An ESTJ thread - extremely good and informative!). Overall, I wouldn't put my bets on an INFJ feeling fulfilled by the relationship in the longterm, although two mature people can make almost anything work if they are committed enough and willing to adjust. I still love and miss my ESTJ, but am very firmly convinced it would have been disastrous to make it a permanent relationship.
 

Poki

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Dec 4, 2008
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Don't use type when dating. Don't! It places people in boxes! Boxes bad! But -

Check out the personal chemistry. Who do you like better, who do you have more in common with? Common interests and goals, and good communication make a relationship work.

Communication is where duality seems to shine from my experience.
 

CzeCze

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INFJ's and ENFP's can have a super intoxicating dynamic. I appreciate how understood I feel, on a deep deep level, and it can be a very intense experience. I'm not sure if I get the "aloofness" comment about ENFP's, though I will say if I'm really interested in someone, I'll keep myself back a bit and circle them several times, to make sure that what I'm seeing is the real thing. A person will show up immediately on my radar, but I need time to assess them before I move in on their space, or let them move into mine. And, it has been my experience that INFJ's tend to keep their distance too - like they have to be sure I won't mangle them or something. :D But, then they pounce without warning. It's always a surprise, and I'm never sure what I said or did that finally made them feel safe enough to jump on me. :D

I totally get the 'circling' bit! Watch and see, duck and weave, etc. :) It's actually an enjoyable part of the courtship/dating process to me and not stressful (or just stressful enough to make it interesting)

I have only dated one confirmed INFJ but the chemistry was always there but it really took off *after* we broke up (like...the first 2 times?) and we both got to know each other in a more relaxed and natural context.

I've heard that INFJs are very good at molding to expectations or putting on masks to please their partner and I think after we stopped dating and worked through some things and I thought I was no longer attracted to her - I think we both let our guards down and felt more comfortable and hence we found we both have an even stronger chemistry! I agree LadyJaye, the word 'intoxicating' is really apt!

I think INFJ keep their distance much more so than ENFPs in a way because they are so strategic about courtship/relationships. It's not so much distance as it is being mindful? I think when an ENFP keeps distance it's because Fi is so overwhelming for us we need distance to keep it in check and figure out what it's telling us (and also so we don't get nutty, lol) and combined with Ne makes us curious and cautious.

I also think I have inadvertently hurt or made INXJs feel that I have "blown them off" when that wasn't the case. Some INFJs are more vocal than others about their expectations of you and their emotional needs.

I have also felt this easy instant chemistry with other INXJ's. And it is unlike the ego blurring whirlpool chemistry/sense of closeness I get with INFPs. There's no check with INFPs so it's easy to fall into each other and lose perspective, blur lines, etc. It's almost suffocating but it's also kinda addictive, like opium...omg, yes I just made a drug and romance metaphor. You can get really lost in an Fi haze with an INFP and lose perspective as well as yourself (especially if you're of the sexual/intimate variant for ennegram).

But with an INFJ it's different, and I like how Ne/Ni and Fe/Fi balance. Or maybe it's not the cognitive functions balancing it's just great to have that chemistry and sense of "deep intimacy" but also a sense of balance, which really provides freedom and gives you space to grow.

I feel like, in theory, it is easier to have a healthy relationship with an INFJ than it is an INFP. Checks and balances.

Okay, that help answer your question at all? :D
 
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