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  1. #61
    Member Tofu562's Avatar
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    weeeeeeeeellll.... if there's any ENFP guys out there that snagged an INFJ girl, want to discuss some strategy?

  2. #62
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    I was just reading an article ( http://www.ccc-apt.org/system/files/...+model+APT.pdf) and I came across this:

    Von Franz [Marie-Louise von Franz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia] had postulated that the greatest difficulties that occur between people are on the basis of one using a function with a particular attitude (e.g., extraversion), and the other using the same function with the opposite attitude (e.g., introversion).
    This is an idea which has been bouncing around in my head for a while, and I think it goes a long way toward explaining the tension/difficulty between INFJs and ENFPs.

    I mean, if I'm understanding it correctly, then INFJs and ENFPs have major difficulties with each other on two counts:Fe vs. Fi and Ni vs. Ne

    Seems like a pretty explosive mix!


    What do you guys think?
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  3. #63
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    I was just reading an article ( http://www.ccc-apt.org/system/files/...+model+APT.pdf) and I came across this:

    This is an idea which has been bouncing around in my head for a while, and I think it goes a long way toward explaining the tension/difficulty between INFJs and ENFPs.

    I mean, if I'm understanding it correctly, then INFJs and ENFPs have major difficulties with each other on two counts:Fe vs. Fi and Ni vs. Ne

    Seems like a pretty explosive mix!


    What do you guys think?
    it just means your assumptions are usually wrong about the other person. the way they get to their conclusions is very different from your way, so you have to trust that. what you take for granted they don't. Ni and Ne are very complimentary, but they motivate different behaviors that seem contradictory to the other type at times (Ne is freedom loving and Ni wants focus). Fi and Fe and Ti and Te clash far harder. methods vs principles. the Je functions work objectives, and they need various foundational elements in order for that to work. that's why they can seem so fucking pushy. whereas Ji types are sooooo stubborn.

    i think enneagram compliance is more important at determining whether enfp and infj work than an overarching MB functional theory. i like what 7w8s come up with, but i'd never be as closely involved with them as 7w6. we'd clash, we need more distance bc we both would want more control.

  4. #64
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    it just means your assumptions are usually wrong about the other person. the way they get to their conclusions is very different from your way, so you have to trust that. what you take for granted they don't. Ni and Ne are very complimentary, but they motivate different behaviors that seem contradictory to the other type at times (Ne is freedom loving and Ni wants focus). Fi and Fe and Ti and Te clash far harder. methods vs principles. the Je functions work objectives, and they need various foundational elements in order for that to work. that's why they can seem so fucking pushy. whereas Ji types are sooooo stubborn.

    i think enneagram compliance is more important at determining whether enfp and infj work than an overarching MB functional theory. i like what 7w8s come up with, but i'd never be as closely involved with them as 7w6. we'd clash, we need more distance bc we both would want more control.
    You make a good point here. I am not an ENFP (though Edgar would disagree), but this has been my experience with INFJ's at times. My assumptions about them are usually way off. It doesn't seem to cause too many problems because the communication is pretty good, but it has caused me to slow down a bit more and really work at getting to know this other person who is so different from me and yet so fascinating.

    I do actually like that they are difficult to read as people who are too easy to read I find boring. I think ENTP's are natural at reading people in a superficial sense and since INFJ's are so not superficial they can really challenge us.

    What is your enneagram? I am 7w6.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #65
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    That's an interesting idea, Wonka! I find that many ENFPs here have been very friendly to me. However, I don't think either of us naturally understands where the other is coming from. I've always wondered why I feel it with them more than the other NFs. That might explain it!

  6. #66
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i am a 5w4 sp/sx infj.

    and to somewhat re-frame what i said previously, i think it's really easy to catch their perceptions and pick up what they see. but the why is what is difficult.

    i find entp-infj to be the easiest of all in this regard, mainly bc the judgment functions work similarly. but the overall dynamics still produce different enneagram types (psychological weaknesses/defenses), perceptual emphases, etc.

    whereas enfp-infj is easier in some ways bc the behavior patterns and skill-sets achieve more similar results (ie we're good at similar things, albeit from an inverted orientation). and we're apt to trust feeling more naturally than Thinking, at least at first, and share a more similar vision with each other as a result.

    i consistently have the best results with 7w6 of all enneagram types. the tone/tenor of communication balances my needs most effectively.

    ep types can still worry me as an introvert. when off-center their social skills often go into overdrive, whereas when i get off-center i feel incapable of social activity (and thus trapped in the resonances of the previous experience). this creates anxiety for me (say, in a romantic relationship), and fucks with my ability to be a consistent person (the 5 oversensitivity, distancing, over-thinking/rationalization, etc).

    enfp 7w6 is the best at being context-sensitive in a way that provides enough gentleness of handling for a worried/anxious/neurotic infj (along with the occasional boost of good feeling, inspiration, warmth, etc). but entp 7w6 seems the best at actual problem-solving, creating more logical coherency and awareness in the infj, showing them their mistakes w/o getting overly angry or feeling the w8 hostility, etc. plus entp humor is the highest form of humor (with intjs next).

    as i'm sure you know, when in various emotional states, infjs can read ANYthing into a situation. our moods drastically filter what we see, and when in negative states we immediately scan any communication or message or symbolic act (which everything is, read kenneth burke), and look for potential threats, violations, aggressions, etc. this is e4 and e5 related behavior. and why we can become so defensive, when we read every point of comparison/statement as drawing attention to a potential defect and weakness we have not been able to conquer and e5 worrying about the worst possible thoughts we can generate and becoming highly counterphobic at times diving into pure darkness just to prove we can handle it, that it won't destroy us, and that we will be able to master it (since we can NOT forget it).

  7. #67
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    That's an interesting idea, Wonka! I find that many ENFPs here have been very friendly to me. However, I don't think either of us naturally understands where the other is coming from. I've always wondered why I feel it with them more than the other NFs. That might explain it!
    i think i remember you stating you are an e2? do you feel confidently about that? do you know your wing?

    you don't seem to get defensive at all like many 4s, but you seem to have a very keen vision on how you work. so i have trouble recognizing your ennea type.

  8. #68
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    I dated an ISTJ once. We were so mean to each other, still we tried to love despite our views and stuff and that was amazing, that we still carried on even though our personalities conflicted.

    The Mind is in essence our soul.

  9. #69
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I've taken two tests and came out as a 2w1 so/sx/sp and a 2 with balanced wings and sp as primary variant. I really don't know.

  10. #70
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    You make a good point here. I am not an ENFP...
    Yeah you are

    ...(though Edgar would disagree)
    of course I would!
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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