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[ENFJ] Do all ENFJs have some kind of miserable memories of childhood?

IEE623

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It seems to me that all (/almost) ENFJs I know have some kinds of miseries in their childhood that lead to their adulthood's insecurity which is masked by a friendly and understanding surface. They're fun and mysterious as acquaintances. But when they start trusting you and revealing to you the deeper and darker side of them, it's like being involved in a real-life tragedy.

No matter how you say it or try to lighten them up, their fears and insecurity are always (i mean literally ALWAYS) there. That's why they never say anything directly or bluntly. Always a question or irrelevant statement that makes you speak out the things they wanted to hear.

ENFJs' obscured insecurity makes them desperate perfectionists. They expect hell of a lot from their close friends or partners. When they see some kind of deviations from their expectations, they try best to manipulate the situation or the person. If they could not, oh my god! They're miserable with their impaired and handicapped analytical skill to solve and reason their confusions and depressions.

So.... I have this female ENFJ bff that I currently cannot deal with. She is trying to move on from a tragical romantic drama which drastically damaged her pride and confidence couple of months ago.
There is this ENTP guy interested in my friend now. I thought he was honest and had strong feelings for her. She really likes him, yet she finds so many methods to question his feelings and honesty. She always tries to tell him they're not going anywhere and tell him not to see her anymore (as her bff, I really interpret it as "she is trying to make him prove his love to her no matter how bitchy she is").

She told me she felt that he's kind of pulling himself away, so she's upset, miserable, and keep going on again about her fears, childhood and recent unpleasant memories (which I've heard and known quite a few times already). No matter how I explain to her how ENTPs might think and react in this situation by their rationales (to me, even tho he really likes her, as a thinker, he might not pursue it when he sees no possibilities that she might change her negative perspectives bout his intention). She kept looking for me for some answers and solution to her situation; yet no matter how much I tried, she kept being stubborn saying she could never get rid of her fears and just want to play it safe.

What should I tell my ENFJ friend to help regain her confidence and get rid of her insecurities and fear?
 

Drezoryx

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i had an awesome childhood. the thing to do would be not to idealize relations/situations/individuals. take the individual with his own +/- thats the only sane way of going forward!
 

IEE623

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i had an awesome childhood. the thing to do would be not to idealize relations/situations/individuals. take the individual with his own +/- thats the only sane way of going forward!

thanks. i guess so bout the childhood then.

what has been the best way that someone has done unto you to lighten you up from a drastic drama?
 

Drezoryx

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thanks. i guess so bout the childhood then.

what has been the best way that someone has done unto you to lighten you up from a drastic drama?

ive stayed light during dramas themselves. Plus enfjs are the giver types, its always been me making others light or brightening their days or sharing their problems. For my own problems unless someone really pushes and intrudes, even then i give them a hazy cryptic somewhat not so bad picture, i recover with alone time spent in contemplation.

interesting question though. i asked my close friends and family about this right now and they said i've never spilt anger from one issue onto another (say not eating food because one is angry for not getting a gadget, has not happened with me).

so why this particular enfj is spilling emotions and confusing situations? it seems like attention seeking behavior (out of her insecurities maybe?) or out of control Fe? or Ne+Te domination, i would leave them alone to contemplate and heal on their own.

Another point is, theorizing or giving moral lectures wont work with an enfj, thats their dominant function and her attention seeking behaviour will feed on all the theory you give her and keep you embroiled endlessly (this is no mysticism you are getting manipulated out here to give more time and energy to her by engaging her dominant functions, which at best you can equal temporarily). Work on her inferior functions , those can be easily tackled with sensory delights. Break her chain of NF thoughts (dominant function) by taking her to as many sensory-heavy occassions as possible, and as often as possible in quick succession.

You can also try and create a big conflict and not let her escape until she lays down her real reasons for such behavior. Though i would recommend this as a last option if at all. But it works, if you really care that much.

but frankly its really odd why a giver personality should be behaving like this. Maybe shes telling you all this and engaging your sympathies because shes interested in you:huh:
 

IEE623

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ive stayed light during dramas themselves. Plus enfjs are the giver types, its always been me making others light or brightening their days or sharing their problems. For my own problems unless someone really pushes and intrudes, even then i give them a hazy cryptic somewhat not so bad picture, i recover with alone time spent in contemplation.

interesting question though. i asked my close friends and family about this right now and they said i've never spilt anger from one issue onto another (say not eating food because one is angry for not getting a gadget, has not happened with me).

so why this particular enfj is spilling emotions and confusing situations? it seems like attention seeking behavior (out of her insecurities maybe?) or out of control Fe? or Ne+Te domination, i would leave them alone to contemplate and heal on their own.

No no. She acts completely cool and normal around others as if her life were splendidly amazing (which I find kind of ridiculous). But her past history with her own family has ripped away her complete trust in ppl that she barely shared any deep feelings or thoughts with anyone in the family or normal friends.
As for me, I think my understanding and strong interest in psychology has made people feel easy to share with me a lot of secrets and deep thoughts; she was not an exception. That was also which made us bff (even tho she doesn't know much about my inner self. Curse my Fi you know :doh:)


Another point is, theorizing or giving moral lectures wont work with an enfj, thats their dominant function and her attention seeking behaviour will feed on all the theory you give her and keep you embroiled endlessly (this is no mysticism you are getting manipulated out here to give more time and energy to her by engaging her dominant functions, which at best you can equal temporarily).

Hahah you're really something you know :jew:. That was the cause for all of our seemingly-never-ending arguments that have ever happened in the past how long we've known each other.


Work on her inferior functions , those can be easily tackled with sensory delights. Break her chain of NF thoughts (dominant function) by taking her to as many sensory-heavy occassions as possible, and as often as possible in quick succession.

You can also try and create a big conflict and not let her escape until she lays down her real reasons for such behavior. Though i would recommend this as a last option if at all. But it works, if you really care that much.

Your thoughts are very enlightening to me. Thanks a great deal for helping me in understanding one more deviated personality :p
Yet we've been throwing words more than necessarily at each others was because we're currently living very far from each other. I guess the sensory delights have to be saved for another time lol
But I sure can try to suggest her stubborn and currently depressing self, which only likes to stay home and agonizing :devil:

but frankly its really odd why a giver personality should be behaving like this. Maybe shes telling you all this and engaging your sympathies because shes interested in you:huh:
:newwink:
hahahha.... NOOOOOO.... first we're bffs. second we're both females lol :p

Thank you for the whole reply again :)
 

Domino

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Being beaten, raped and impoverished did my head in.

But it would do *anyone's* head in, type aside.

I have the misfortune of a memory so long it reaches back to when I was 3 years old. It's vivid and lacerating in detail. I can even recall smells at times. Time sloshes back and forth like a liquid for me, so "moving on" can be a concept I dream of and long for with all my heart when I know another memory tsunami will hit, scattering the dead across the beach once more.

Because of what happened to me (for years and years), I was sensitive/acutely aware of danger and one of my earliest memories (age 3 1/2) was seeing a dead dog on the roadside where I lived being slowly consumed by kudzu and ivy. It horrified me. Something told me that I would end up like that dog, dead on the road and being overtaken by crawling weeds. True mortal panic for one so little and already out of control. Now it's burned permanently into my brain, that picture.

I know many people who've suffered hideous abuse. Type seems to make no difference in the long run, though the ability to relieve every moment unbidden is perhaps a type cross that I must bear. I have an ENTP friend that I've known for 12 years or more. He suffered abuse I can't even begin to describe. He should be insane, but he isn't, and he's tried to move forward with his life as best as he can, but what happened to him still comes back to bite him, esp in his personal relationships.

I'm sorry she's struggling. Please tell her to go get help so she can reclaim her life. Feeling out of control is terrible and getting stuck in a chaotic frenzied webbing Ni is difficult to escape. She may need outside help.
 

Biaxident

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I have the misfortune of a memory so long it reaches back to when I was 3 years old. It's vivid and lacerating in detail. I can even recall smells at times. ...I know another memory tsunami will hit, scattering the dead across the beach once more.



I know many people who've suffered hideous abuse. Type seems to make no difference in the long run...

I'm sorry she's struggling. Please tell her to go get help so she can reclaim her life. Feeling out of control is terrible and getting stuck in a chaotic frenzied webbing Ni is difficult to escape. She may need outside help.

:yes:

Ditto.
 

SpottingTrains

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I wouldn't change anything from my childhood. No complaints here!
 

Drezoryx

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@IEE623 well from all this its clear words alone aren't going to cut it, you'll need a hands on approach here! good luck (PS this was fun i should have checked the genders first ;))
 

The Third Rider

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Well I guess the OP is right in my case when she says that most ENFjs have child hood issues. I personally wont talk about my issues here but some of them have come back and hunt me, most of it was in my confidence though which was completely none existent for several years. I was very paranoid and I still suffer from some kind of anxiety towards the rest of the world.
 

The Grand Chameleon

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It seems to me that all (/almost) ENFJs I know have some kinds of miseries in their childhood that lead to their adulthood's insecurity which is masked by a friendly and understanding surface. They're fun and mysterious as acquaintances. But when they start trusting you and revealing to you the deeper and darker side of them, it's like being involved in a real-life tragedy.

No matter how you say it or try to lighten them up, their fears and insecurity are always (i mean literally ALWAYS) there. That's why they never say anything directly or bluntly. Always a question or irrelevant statement that makes you speak out the things they wanted to hear.

ENFJs' obscured insecurity makes them desperate perfectionists. They expect hell of a lot from their close friends or partners. When they see some kind of deviations from their expectations, they try best to manipulate the situation or the person. If they could not, oh my god! They're miserable with their impaired and handicapped analytical skill to solve and reason their confusions and depressions.

Excellent insight. This should be part of the type description. I always hated the sugar-coated, rainbow-laden descriptions found everywhere on the internet. :steam:

What should I tell my ENFJ friend to help regain her confidence and get rid of her insecurities and fear?

I'm not sure if this is possible. What you described could possibly be her attempt to remedy these insecurities. Though it might seem confusing and irrational to you, to her it might seem to make perfect sense.

Personally, I think she doesn't know what she wants anymore. Previous BF might have damaged her "ideal man" notion, throwing her world into disarray. This sounds like the ENFJ's horrible logic at play (lol). I suppose it's good to be wary, but if she lets every subsequent male act as an identical traitor, she'll be in this rut forever.

Kudos in your endeavor to help a friend. :yes:
 

Drezoryx

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Excellent insight. This should be part of the type description. I always hated the sugar-coated, rainbow-laden descriptions found everywhere on the internet. :steam:

i don't mind being blunt where necessary. there is a difference between behavior induced due to problems in the childhood and healthy description of ENFJ. For example www.personalitypage.com/ENFJ_per.html gives the problems with ENFJs as well as constructive ways of dealing with them.. Then coming to enneagram on Enneagram Institute: Enneagram Testing & Training the type descriptions vary from healthy to unhealthy, pick where you feel you are and then transform up the levels using info on 9types.com

linking of adult problems showing up due to a particular kind of childhood problem with few enfjs and applying it to the TYPE in general doesnt seem to hold water logically either.
At most there could be correlation between childhood/adult problems and being ENFJ but theres no causation which could be proved or inferred either way definitely.

Just my 2 cents. Not that i dont feel fer those with such issues i do! :hug::hug:


Personally, I think she doesn't know what she wants anymore. Previous BF might have damaged her "ideal man" notion, throwing her world into disarray.

diagnosis here is apt. i too was hoping earlier in the thread that NF's must avoid idealizing in general and accept the world for what it is.
 

IEE623

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Personally, I think she doesn't know what she wants anymore. Previous BF might have damaged her "ideal man" notion, throwing her world into disarray. This sounds like the ENFJ's horrible logic at play (lol). I suppose it's good to be wary, but if she lets every subsequent male act as an identical traitor, she'll be in this rut forever.

Kudos in your endeavor to help a friend. :yes:

I guess no one knows ENFJs better than ENFJs :yes:
I've been told so many times that she really didn't know what she wanted anymore. :steam: she was really stuck within her little world of Ni.


linking of adult problems showing up due to a particular kind of childhood problem with few enfjs and applying it to the TYPE in general doesnt seem to hold water logically either.
At most there could be correlation between childhood/adult problems and being ENFJ but theres no causation which could be proved or inferred either way definitely.

yea i agree. it was a little bit of a generalization of mine.
but i guess collected generalizations made most ppl's lives easier :p it's like doing research and statistics, you make thesis, observe and analyze based on samples that are available in my hand. when the size of your sample grows bigger, you get more accurate result.

according to Socionics, any type has 2 subtypes. so ENFJs have two subtypes: Intuitive, and Feeling (or Ethical in Socionics language). As with my friend, I believe she belongs to the latter, which means she let her Fe rules her more than her Ni. here is the description:

Ethical subtype: (The Tutor)

(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The ethical subtype tries to behave according to the rules of good form in society. Are internally emotional, but usually modest and constrained in their emotional expression. Sensitive and vulnerable, alone in a shower may often experience dramatic emotions, but in front of strangers they restrain themselves. Find it difficult to relax due to internal strains, wounds, and overarching ambitions; while internally suffering from a set of complexes, externally they appear proud and aloof. Usually cautious and prone to think actions through beforehand; nervous with themselves but patient and persistent they are able to achieve their goals. Exacting in enforcing that their associates observe ethical standards of behavior and prone to rashly provide remarks and advice when they see people conflict with these ethical standards.
Mood varies: cold, haughty, obstinate and exacting, then soft, sincere, affable and seemingly defenseless. Movements are smooth, sometimes demonstrative, when they want they can dress effectively, yet modestly for the occasion.
[original link]

With the description, I think my thesis would be that my generalization at the beginning of this thread might be relevant for the Ethical Subtype of ENFJs.
and millionaire, you might belong to the Intuitive subtype?
 

Laurie

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Isn't there a thread like this for each type?
 

Drezoryx

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and millionaire, you might belong to the Intuitive subtype?

might, descriptions are a bit narrow to take a pick. i guess ill stick with the overall enfj type... lol but thanks you showed interest. might i ask why Ni subtype?
 

IEE623

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might, descriptions are a bit narrow to take a pick. i guess ill stick with the overall enfj type... lol but thanks you showed interest. might i ask why Ni subtype?

your great, acute insights earlier in the threads showed me that you were very Intuitive
 

Yloh

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I’m not an expert on the dating field, but I believe I do have some useful advice.

In terms of ENFJs and having a tragic past, it is not limited to just ENFJs. Any one of the sixteen personality types could just as easily have some sort of tragic event happen in his/her life. What happens after words is what separates them. I feel that Ts have a much easier time making peace with tragic events in their pasts as they are not nearly as sensitive. Fs will feel hurt and are more likely to remember that pain for a longer period of time. Of course I’m not saying that it true with EVERY tragic event, but this is just the general idea. NFs I feel can have it the worst in terms of this because they are SO idealistic. When something happens that shatters that idealistic way of thought, it hurts a lot. This pain will dwell inside of that person for years until they learn to make peace with it or at least accept it.

ENFJs in general are very protective of their inner selves. They wear he happy mask in order to maintain peace and harmony with the public. The goal of the ENFJ is to help others grow to their fullest potential and sometimes they can forget to let themselves grow. When an ENFJ does find a true friend they can trust, they will release their inner pains. It sucks holding dark things in, and it can be more draining than anything else on the planet. Sometimes talking about it can help the person release the pain, but sometimes it takes a guide to help that person fully release their pain.

I don’t know your friend’s situation, or why she had lost her pervious boyfriend, but I think I have found a reason. At the beginning of your post, you were stating that your ENFJ friend shows you the dark things that go on inside of her. This is because the truly trusts you. Well if someone would reveal their dark side to their best friend, how much so will she reveal herself to her boyfriend? I’m not saying this is what it is, but it is just a hunch. If I were her boyfriend hanging with this girl who always shows me her pains and not her fun side, I could see myself avoiding her (even dumping her).

I wonder if this ENFP guy knows her insecurities (her dark past), and she doesn’t know how to handle them in front of him. Because the ENFP guy has Fi, he will avoid her to avoid any confrontation.

I'm wondering if she has delt with rejection in the past. Does she feel worthless? If so, that would explain her attention seeking behavior. She wants to be accepted and she doesn't know how. Try and help her realise that she doesn't need to be outragous to be accepted.

My advice is to try and help your ENFJ friend be at peace with her past, or at least accept her past. When that is accomplished, her insecurities will actually begin to go away once and for all. Some of those insecurities might always be there, but she would be better equipped to deal with them if she had peace. With piece, she can also be truly happy in public instead of wearing her happy mask and she will be able to be happy in private as well.

I hope this helps you out. Have a nice day!
 

IEE623

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Well if someone would reveal their dark side to their best friend, how much so will she reveal herself to her boyfriend? I’m not saying this is what it is, but it is just a hunch. If I were her boyfriend hanging with this girl who always shows me her pains and not her fun side, I could see myself avoiding her (even dumping her).

I think you were right. Even I've avoided her sometime :cry:


I wonder if this ENFP guy knows her insecurities (her dark past), and she doesn’t know how to handle them in front of him. Because the ENFP guy has Fi, he will avoid her to avoid any confrontation.

I'm wondering if she has delt with rejection in the past. Does she feel worthless? If so, that would explain her attention seeking behavior. She wants to be accepted and she doesn't know how. Try and help her realise that she doesn't need to be outragous to be accepted.

Oh, her previous bf was an ISTJ, and the one right now (not bf yet) is ENTP (not ENFP :p).
I'm not really sure how she acts around this ENTP, and how much she's revealed already (not much to my assumption). But I'm sure she is every moody and ambiguous, which is not some traits that ENTPs are much pleased to deal with consistently.

My advice is to try and help your ENFJ friend be at peace with her past, or at least accept her past. When that is accomplished, her insecurities will actually begin to go away once and for all. Some of those insecurities might always be there, but she would be better equipped to deal with them if she had peace. With piece, she can also be truly happy in public instead of wearing her happy mask and she will be able to be happy in private as well.

I hope this helps you out. Have a nice day!

My goal has always been so, but somehow my means haven't been right :steam:

Your above opinions about my friend were pretty accurate. Thanks a lot! I will try to bring to her attention her subconscious attention seeking behavior .
 
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