User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 19 of 19

  1. #11
    Senior Member The Grand Chameleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w2
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IEE623 View Post
    It seems to me that all (/almost) ENFJs I know have some kinds of miseries in their childhood that lead to their adulthood's insecurity which is masked by a friendly and understanding surface. They're fun and mysterious as acquaintances. But when they start trusting you and revealing to you the deeper and darker side of them, it's like being involved in a real-life tragedy.

    No matter how you say it or try to lighten them up, their fears and insecurity are always (i mean literally ALWAYS) there. That's why they never say anything directly or bluntly. Always a question or irrelevant statement that makes you speak out the things they wanted to hear.

    ENFJs' obscured insecurity makes them desperate perfectionists. They expect hell of a lot from their close friends or partners. When they see some kind of deviations from their expectations, they try best to manipulate the situation or the person. If they could not, oh my god! They're miserable with their impaired and handicapped analytical skill to solve and reason their confusions and depressions.
    Excellent insight. This should be part of the type description. I always hated the sugar-coated, rainbow-laden descriptions found everywhere on the internet. :steam:

    Quote Originally Posted by IEE623 View Post
    What should I tell my ENFJ friend to help regain her confidence and get rid of her insecurities and fear?
    I'm not sure if this is possible. What you described could possibly be her attempt to remedy these insecurities. Though it might seem confusing and irrational to you, to her it might seem to make perfect sense.

    Personally, I think she doesn't know what she wants anymore. Previous BF might have damaged her "ideal man" notion, throwing her world into disarray. This sounds like the ENFJ's horrible logic at play (lol). I suppose it's good to be wary, but if she lets every subsequent male act as an identical traitor, she'll be in this rut forever.

    Kudos in your endeavor to help a friend.
    "In the game of chess, you can never let your opponent see your pieces."

  2. #12
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    ENTp
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Grand Chameleon View Post
    Excellent insight. This should be part of the type description. I always hated the sugar-coated, rainbow-laden descriptions found everywhere on the internet. :steam:
    i don't mind being blunt where necessary. there is a difference between behavior induced due to problems in the childhood and healthy description of ENFJ. For example www.personalitypage.com/ENFJ_per.html gives the problems with ENFJs as well as constructive ways of dealing with them.. Then coming to enneagram on Enneagram Institute: Enneagram Testing & Training the type descriptions vary from healthy to unhealthy, pick where you feel you are and then transform up the levels using info on 9types.com

    linking of adult problems showing up due to a particular kind of childhood problem with few enfjs and applying it to the TYPE in general doesnt seem to hold water logically either.
    At most there could be correlation between childhood/adult problems and being ENFJ but theres no causation which could be proved or inferred either way definitely.

    Just my 2 cents. Not that i dont feel fer those with such issues i do!


    Quote Originally Posted by The Grand Chameleon View Post
    Personally, I think she doesn't know what she wants anymore. Previous BF might have damaged her "ideal man" notion, throwing her world into disarray.
    diagnosis here is apt. i too was hoping earlier in the thread that NF's must avoid idealizing in general and accept the world for what it is.
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
    O:C:E:A:N :: 65:69:59:57:9

  3. #13
    Senior Member IEE623's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    NeXx
    Socionics
    IeE
    Posts
    198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Grand Chameleon View Post
    Personally, I think she doesn't know what she wants anymore. Previous BF might have damaged her "ideal man" notion, throwing her world into disarray. This sounds like the ENFJ's horrible logic at play (lol). I suppose it's good to be wary, but if she lets every subsequent male act as an identical traitor, she'll be in this rut forever.

    Kudos in your endeavor to help a friend.
    I guess no one knows ENFJs better than ENFJs
    I've been told so many times that she really didn't know what she wanted anymore. :steam: she was really stuck within her little world of Ni.


    Quote Originally Posted by slumdogtrillionaire View Post

    linking of adult problems showing up due to a particular kind of childhood problem with few enfjs and applying it to the TYPE in general doesnt seem to hold water logically either.
    At most there could be correlation between childhood/adult problems and being ENFJ but theres no causation which could be proved or inferred either way definitely.
    yea i agree. it was a little bit of a generalization of mine.
    but i guess collected generalizations made most ppl's lives easier :P it's like doing research and statistics, you make thesis, observe and analyze based on samples that are available in my hand. when the size of your sample grows bigger, you get more accurate result.

    according to Socionics, any type has 2 subtypes. so ENFJs have two subtypes: Intuitive, and Feeling (or Ethical in Socionics language). As with my friend, I believe she belongs to the latter, which means she let her Fe rules her more than her Ni. here is the description:

    Ethical subtype: (The Tutor)

    (Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The ethical subtype tries to behave according to the rules of good form in society. Are internally emotional, but usually modest and constrained in their emotional expression. Sensitive and vulnerable, alone in a shower may often experience dramatic emotions, but in front of strangers they restrain themselves. Find it difficult to relax due to internal strains, wounds, and overarching ambitions; while internally suffering from a set of complexes, externally they appear proud and aloof. Usually cautious and prone to think actions through beforehand; nervous with themselves but patient and persistent they are able to achieve their goals. Exacting in enforcing that their associates observe ethical standards of behavior and prone to rashly provide remarks and advice when they see people conflict with these ethical standards.
    Mood varies: cold, haughty, obstinate and exacting, then soft, sincere, affable and seemingly defenseless. Movements are smooth, sometimes demonstrative, when they want they can dress effectively, yet modestly for the occasion.
    [original link]
    With the description, I think my thesis would be that my generalization at the beginning of this thread might be relevant for the Ethical Subtype of ENFJs.
    and millionaire, you might belong to the Intuitive subtype?
    "Adversity makes men, and prosperity makes monsters"

  4. #14
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    6,075

    Default

    Isn't there a thread like this for each type?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    ENTp
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IEE623 View Post
    and millionaire, you might belong to the Intuitive subtype?
    might, descriptions are a bit narrow to take a pick. i guess ill stick with the overall enfj type... lol but thanks you showed interest. might i ask why Ni subtype?
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
    O:C:E:A:N :: 65:69:59:57:9

  6. #16
    Senior Member IEE623's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    NeXx
    Socionics
    IeE
    Posts
    198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slumdogtrillionaire View Post
    might, descriptions are a bit narrow to take a pick. i guess ill stick with the overall enfj type... lol but thanks you showed interest. might i ask why Ni subtype?
    your great, acute insights earlier in the threads showed me that you were very Intuitive
    "Adversity makes men, and prosperity makes monsters"

  7. #17
    Senior Member Yloh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Socionics
    ENFj
    Posts
    191

    Default

    Iím not an expert on the dating field, but I believe I do have some useful advice.

    In terms of ENFJs and having a tragic past, it is not limited to just ENFJs. Any one of the sixteen personality types could just as easily have some sort of tragic event happen in his/her life. What happens after words is what separates them. I feel that Ts have a much easier time making peace with tragic events in their pasts as they are not nearly as sensitive. Fs will feel hurt and are more likely to remember that pain for a longer period of time. Of course Iím not saying that it true with EVERY tragic event, but this is just the general idea. NFs I feel can have it the worst in terms of this because they are SO idealistic. When something happens that shatters that idealistic way of thought, it hurts a lot. This pain will dwell inside of that person for years until they learn to make peace with it or at least accept it.

    ENFJs in general are very protective of their inner selves. They wear he happy mask in order to maintain peace and harmony with the public. The goal of the ENFJ is to help others grow to their fullest potential and sometimes they can forget to let themselves grow. When an ENFJ does find a true friend they can trust, they will release their inner pains. It sucks holding dark things in, and it can be more draining than anything else on the planet. Sometimes talking about it can help the person release the pain, but sometimes it takes a guide to help that person fully release their pain.

    I donít know your friendís situation, or why she had lost her pervious boyfriend, but I think I have found a reason. At the beginning of your post, you were stating that your ENFJ friend shows you the dark things that go on inside of her. This is because the truly trusts you. Well if someone would reveal their dark side to their best friend, how much so will she reveal herself to her boyfriend? Iím not saying this is what it is, but it is just a hunch. If I were her boyfriend hanging with this girl who always shows me her pains and not her fun side, I could see myself avoiding her (even dumping her).

    I wonder if this ENFP guy knows her insecurities (her dark past), and she doesnít know how to handle them in front of him. Because the ENFP guy has Fi, he will avoid her to avoid any confrontation.

    I'm wondering if she has delt with rejection in the past. Does she feel worthless? If so, that would explain her attention seeking behavior. She wants to be accepted and she doesn't know how. Try and help her realise that she doesn't need to be outragous to be accepted.

    My advice is to try and help your ENFJ friend be at peace with her past, or at least accept her past. When that is accomplished, her insecurities will actually begin to go away once and for all. Some of those insecurities might always be there, but she would be better equipped to deal with them if she had peace. With piece, she can also be truly happy in public instead of wearing her happy mask and she will be able to be happy in private as well.

    I hope this helps you out. Have a nice day!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    ENTp
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IEE623 View Post
    your great, acute insights earlier in the threads showed me that you were very Intuitive
    thanks so much
    Type 8 sx/sp/so
    O:C:E:A:N :: 65:69:59:57:9

  9. #19
    Senior Member IEE623's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    NeXx
    Socionics
    IeE
    Posts
    198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yloh View Post
    Well if someone would reveal their dark side to their best friend, how much so will she reveal herself to her boyfriend? Iím not saying this is what it is, but it is just a hunch. If I were her boyfriend hanging with this girl who always shows me her pains and not her fun side, I could see myself avoiding her (even dumping her).
    I think you were right. Even I've avoided her sometime


    Quote Originally Posted by Yloh View Post
    I wonder if this ENFP guy knows her insecurities (her dark past), and she doesnít know how to handle them in front of him. Because the ENFP guy has Fi, he will avoid her to avoid any confrontation.

    I'm wondering if she has delt with rejection in the past. Does she feel worthless? If so, that would explain her attention seeking behavior. She wants to be accepted and she doesn't know how. Try and help her realise that she doesn't need to be outragous to be accepted.
    Oh, her previous bf was an ISTJ, and the one right now (not bf yet) is ENTP (not ENFP :P).
    I'm not really sure how she acts around this ENTP, and how much she's revealed already (not much to my assumption). But I'm sure she is every moody and ambiguous, which is not some traits that ENTPs are much pleased to deal with consistently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yloh View Post
    My advice is to try and help your ENFJ friend be at peace with her past, or at least accept her past. When that is accomplished, her insecurities will actually begin to go away once and for all. Some of those insecurities might always be there, but she would be better equipped to deal with them if she had peace. With piece, she can also be truly happy in public instead of wearing her happy mask and she will be able to be happy in private as well.

    I hope this helps you out. Have a nice day!
    My goal has always been so, but somehow my means haven't been right :steam:

    Your above opinions about my friend were pretty accurate. Thanks a lot! I will try to bring to her attention her subconscious attention seeking behavior .
    "Adversity makes men, and prosperity makes monsters"

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFJ] So.... do all ENFJ's love talking about themself and their issues?
    By SUPER in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-26-2010, 07:37 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-28-2009, 08:19 AM
  3. Some kind of INTJ creature.
    By Orizien in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 12-11-2008, 03:42 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO