[INFJ] Psychic INFJ's?

[shimsham]

I pretty much agree with everything you had to say. This particular part reminds me of my manipulative days when I was young. I got to the point that I knew just what I would need to say and do to get someone to do exactly what I wanted them to do. I would have made Tom Sawyer proud, and I even use to incite people in certain situations because I enjoyed watching everything play out exactly as I knew it would. Thank God I grew out of that, but now my little brother is the master manipulator and it drives me nuts.

Do unhealthy INFJs act like INTJs?

I have the same capabilities, although I never really used them for my own enjoyment, even during my troubled youth . I'm very good at diffusing uncomfortable or anger-filled situations, or feeding someone an opinion, simply by leading the other person through a series of steps in a conversation. It feels very manipulative at times, because about 99% of the time the other person is completely unaware of what I'm doing. I often have to use this technique with my boss, who has the emotional capacity of a 4 year old.

I agree with most everyone on here, that our "psychic" abilities are simply an acute sensitivity to patterns in the everyday world. When I was a kid, my family and I used to play a game where I'd predict the next song on the radio during the silence directly preceding it. They were always amazed that I could predict the songs with such accuracy, when it was really just me picking up on which songs were in heavy rotation on that station and anticipating when it was the next time for that song to pop up.

 

[Haight]

So that's why I wasn't able to impress or surprise her when I... (ok, you get the joke and someone had to do it)

Yeah, well. . . I thought I was safe since Aether [sic?] is over at the other site.

 

[Eileen]

Eh. I don't buy the INFJs-are-psychic thing. We are perceptive, but we don't perceive anything supernaturally, imo. We just perceive things that others don't notice and we are kickass at drawing accurate conclusions that pertain to the future. We also tend to map meaning onto things that aren't necessarily inherently meaningful (but that's cool, because they become meaningful as we interpret them as such).

 

[The Ü™]

Intuitive has never been directly synonymous with psychic.

Intuitive people make assumptions. Psychics are right about their assumptions.

 

[quietgirl]

When I was a child my mother, would always say that I must have an "old soul" because I would say things very unlike what a child would say, and even now I occasionally get accused of "knowing beyond my years." But I think that has a lot more to do with how I interpret the world, which can often come across as some sort of wisdom because I've always been very good at discerning the truth from any given situation.

I used to get that a lot as a child, too.

I agree with the other posts that INFJ's seem to just pick up on certain, patterns, human interactions, & subtle clues easily (normally without realizing we are doing it!). Our Ni takes little seemingly unrelated pieces and makes them whole, so being as Ni driven as we are, we're bound to know things before others are aware of them. However, in retrospect, I bet we can figure out the small clues that led us to "knowing". This sort of thing pops up most in relationships with me - I always know when they are going to end, the guy's going to cheat & with whom, etc etc waaaaay before anything actually happens. However, when I look back I realize that it may have just been in inflection in his voice, an unneccessary defensive statement or a change in a seemingly unimportant pattern. Ni immediately takes these clues, puts them together, and gives us a conclusion of what will happen next - hence why INFJ's in general are so future oriented. We can't NOT be with Ni dominating! This is the point that I get my famous "gut feeling", as well - because I KNOW what's going to happen and there's nothing I can do to prevent it (or if I do something, I'd look as though I was starting trouble and it'll just escalate the eventual outcome - and make me look a bit nuts).

The only remotely "psychic" thing that I can't really explain is that I do get premonition dreams.

 

[Carebear]

Intuitive people make assumptions. Psychics are right about their assumptions.

Intuitive people make assumptions. Psychics have learned about cold reading and let people believe they are right about their assumptions when in fact they let their subjects make their own assumptions and just play along by making loads of vague contradictory guesses and let people themselves tell the psychic all the actual info.

"I sense that there might or might not have been something difficult for you in relation to sexuality around age hm... 12? Or a few years later..."

Either the subject will see this as extremely significant and tell the psychic that yes, in fact this and that happened, how on earth did you know?

or if nothing bad happened, it still was a troubled period sexuality wise. Or if it against all odds wasn't, she did say "might or might not", so let's just move on.

 

[Bethy]

I had an English teacher in high school who gave a test to the whole class to test our "psychic" abilities. She would think of a picture or symbol (from a list on the blackboard) and we would guess which one she was thinking of and write it down.

I did not do very well. I don't think that anyone did.

So I'm not psychic, at least not in that sense. But I have always been hyper-aware of what other people are feeling. I could always sense when my mother was angry, even if she appeared perfectly calm and didn't have a scowl on her face. I just knew, somehow.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Let me try to explain what I am saying about the danger of presumptuous hunches.

Human perception naturally splits into the conscious and unconscious minds. We developed this way for efficiency. Our mind and senses take in far more data than our conscious minds can process. Because of this humans develop internal filtering systems. These systems are based on our world view. We naturally perceive those select details that fit into our conscious system of thought - those details that make sense to us. This is why prejudicial thinking runs so deep. It is artificially validated through our perceptions. For example, if there is an underlying assumption that men in business suits are smart, then the mind will select only those details that reinforce this assumption. When such men say stupid things, these with either be quickly forgotten, or never perceived in the first place. It is uncomfortable to realize this about ourselves, that our perceptions are naturally distorted, but it is measurably and observably true.

So you see, the individual that gets a psychic hunch that person A is a liar and not to be trusted will perceive that person in such a way to reinforce that assumption. The times person A seems honest will not be seen. If the psychic hunch says Person B is competitive and out to get their job, then everything person B says will be twisted into a competitive challenge in the mind of the "psychic". The person with the presumed insight will feel completely validated in both scenarios, resting assured in their deep insight even if it was completely false.

I do invest a lot into perceiving people and have experienced hunches, but have learned the necessity to filter these through reason and to withhold judgment. In a word, it is necessary to take such insight with a grain of salt. A strong impression is the beginning of insight, not the end. Yes there is a reason for such insight, but it may come from within yourself and have nothing to do with the other person at all. I do get vivid flashes in my mind of seeing people in different emotional states than what they are presenting in the moment, but that is primarily a curiosity. For example I know a young woman whose father was very frightening. She is quite aggressive and intense herself, but even when she is self assured there is a certain tremble in her voice. When talking to her i get vivid impressions of the kind of fear she felt as a little girl. What does that mean? Maybe it is insight, maybe it is my imagination, maybe it is projecting something of myself on her. What it means to me is that i am curious to understand her better on her terms, not mine. Insightful people allow others to tell their story, listen and consider these deeply valid, even moreso than their personal hunches.

 

[Totenkindly]

Oh dear.

Let me try to explain what I am saying about the danger of presumptuous hunches. Human perception naturally splits into the conscious and unconscious minds. We developed this way for efficiency...

This was a wonderful post, Toonia... and so well-stated. Very thorough and logical.

...This is why prejudicial thinking runs so deep. It is artificially validated through our perceptions.

What is ironic is that you are challenging the touted "psychic hunch" haphazardly associated with Ni types by actually using your Ni (supported with an articulate Ti) to say, "Step outside your frame of reference and recognize the assumptions you are making about your own Ni." Nice.

... What does that mean? Maybe it is insight, maybe it is my imagination, maybe it is projecting something of myself on her. What it means to me is that i am curious to understand her better on her terms, not mine. Insightful people allow others to tell their story, listen and consider these deeply valid, even moreso than their personal hunches.

Sorry if I am overstroking your ego, but this was just such a beautiful post in so many ways -- not only putting Ni back in its place but encouraging the sort of conversation that sometimes over-application of MBTI prevents from occurring.

 

[cascadeco]

Let me try to explain what I am saying about the danger of presumptuous hunches.
.............................
Maybe it is insight, maybe it is my imagination, maybe it is projecting something of myself on her. What it means to me is that i am curious to understand her better on her terms, not mine.

I agree with the overall message of your post, and especially the above two blurbs.

To be quite honest, I often don't trust my hunches, and I certainly don't presume to think I'm right about half the stuff I think I detect (but, it seems often my initial hunch ends up being right, given enough time - but sure, definitely not always; and that's why time, and not listening to your hunch automatically, is imperative). I'm really quite the listener, and am always questioning myself and why I think one way or another, and deep down am quite curious about how people tick, and want them to open up on their terms, in their own way.

But, given the nature of the original post/question, as to why INFJ's tend to appear 'psychic', or are attributed those 'powers', I think there are good reasons for why INFJ's appear this way -- which is what has been discussed by a lot of people already in this thread.

So, I see this discussion breaking up into two topics now - one, there's the ability/skill of detecting patterns or details, and WHY INFJ's might be considered the 'psychics' in type descriptions - and then there's what/how we, as INFJ, choose to view ourselves, our thoughts, our motivations, how we actualize our abilities, our strengths and weaknesses, and perceive them within ourselves..i.e. humbleness, vs manipulative, vs...I don't know.....I'm having an impossible time verbalizing this second part. But yeah..kinda where you've been going with your posts.

 

[hotmale]

Let me try to explain what I am saying about the danger of presumptuous hunches.

Human perception naturally splits into the conscious and unconscious minds. We developed this way for efficiency. Our mind and senses take in far more data than our conscious minds can process. Because of this humans develop internal filtering systems. These systems are based on our world view. We naturally perceive those select details that fit into our conscious system of thought - those details that make sense to us. This is why prejudicial thinking runs so deep. It is artificially validated through our perceptions. For example, if there is an underlying assumption that men in business suits are smart, then the mind will select only those details that reinforce this assumption. When such men say stupid things, these with either be quickly forgotten, or never perceived in the first place. It is uncomfortable to realize this about ourselves, that our perceptions are naturally distorted, but it is measurably and observably true.

So you see, the individual that gets a psychic hunch that person A is a liar and not to be trusted will perceive that person in such a way to reinforce that assumption. The times person A seems honest will not be seen. If the psychic hunch says Person B is competitive and out to get their job, then everything person B says will be twisted into a competitive challenge in the mind of the "psychic". The person with the presumed insight will feel completely validated in both scenarios, resting assured in their deep insight even if it was completely false.

I do invest a lot into perceiving people and have experienced hunches, but have learned the necessity to filter these through reason and to withhold judgment. In a word, it is necessary to take such insight with a grain of salt. A strong impression is the beginning of insight, not the end. Yes there is a reason for such insight, but it may come from within yourself and have nothing to do with the other person at all. I do get vivid flashes in my mind of seeing people in different emotional states than what they are presenting in the moment, but that is primarily a curiosity. For example I know a young woman whose father was very frightening. She is quite aggressive and intense herself, but even when she is self assured there is a certain tremble in her voice. When talking to her i get vivid impressions of the kind of fear she felt as a little girl. What does that mean? Maybe it is insight, maybe it is my imagination, maybe it is projecting something of myself on her. What it means to me is that i am curious to understand her better on her terms, not mine. Insightful people allow others to tell their story, listen and consider these deeply valid, even moreso than their personal hunches.

Good post. I like your analogy of the filtering mechanism in human perception- (I.E., wanting to see what you want to see). I have noticed however, with your particular type INFJs- tend to be hypersensitive to criticism and jokes intended to be playful and teasing and tend to take very seriously what was often meant in jest. Just sayin'

 

[OctaviaCaesar]

I agree that this is a weird thing to ascribe to a personality type--when I read it I was a little skeptical--but I have had some episodes in my life that I can't explain. About two years ago I would dream of someone I hadn't seen in a while, and suddenly I would hear gossip about that person. The most eerie thing like this was when I thought of somebody that I had known before high school, and had not seen for a few years, and had heard a few months previously that she was pregnant. One day I said to my mom out of the blue, "I wonder if she has had her baby yet?" The next day a friend of a friend called my mom and said that she had given birth the day I randomly remembered her.

 

[Murmur]

I've actually had some weird dream experiences that aren't easily explained rationally. When I'm going through a more laid-back stage in my life, I sometimes dream about happenings that "come true" the next day or day after that. It can be a dream about a phone call conversation or a visit to a place I've never seen before, and then accidentally ending up there in "real life". Sometimes the dream settings just keep coming real situation after another, and it makes me feel really odd. It's like having a continuous déjà vu.

 

[OctaviaCaesar]

''Continuous deja-vu" is exactly what it feels like! Thanks.

 

[wolfmaiden14]

I've had little spurts of interestingly timed things. And yes, "continuous deja vu" is a VERY good way of putting it.

The most memorable one that I can't even explain involved a friend of mine. I had met him once at a con, and hadn't talked to him for months. Eventually, through emails we got to talking again, and planned for him to fly out and visit me. One of the packages he sent me had some rather unflattering, and not really looking-like-him-in-real-life photos (far away, sun in the eyes, etc.). So obviously, I'm trying really hard to remember what the hell he looks like. Well the night before I was supposed to pick him up, I had a dream with him in it, and his face was clear as day and really close. I nearly dropped over dead in the airport when I saw him walking up and that's EXACTLY what he looked like.

Also to hotmale - You're so correct, at least with me, about the hyper sensitivity, even when I know people are just engaging in some friendly teasing! Thankfully, I've gotten over it and learned to laugh at the insecurities the people are poking fun at me for along with them. It took a couple months and also realizing that the person making fun of me was projecting because he has the same problem! I still can slip into a total self-depreciative state if my energy is low, or I'm stressed, though, and get really quiet, or downright mean in return.

 

[qwertsquirt]

I am strong clairvoyant skills, worldwide visions are only big ones like earthquakes and stuff, other common stuff is common. People I can understand I can easily guess what they are wearing today, who sent me a text, and I can feel energy, don't see spirits though but I can feel them touch me occasionally.

 

[BlueScreen]

I've actually had some weird dream experiences that aren't easily explained rationally. When I'm going through a more laid-back stage in my life, I sometimes dream about happenings that "come true" the next day or day after that. It can be a dream about a phone call conversation or a visit to a place I've never seen before, and then accidentally ending up there in "real life". Sometimes the dream settings just keep coming real situation after another, and it makes me feel really odd. It's like having a continuous déjà vu.

These are one of the ones I find cool and mystical, many of the others are an underestimation of how much we influence the future or remember of the past. I'd try to explain it as your mind playing out the possible future, but sometimes they are freaky and quite detailed. In a way you still start the next day looking to verify it and in that sense move the future toward it.

The really clairvoyant ones which I can't explain are where a fact you can have had no influence over and no way of knowing about occurs to you. Like you know a relative has died unexpectedly in a car accident (I'm sceptical about ones where the person is sick or in hospital, so death is a good possibility. And it probably doesn't count if it is terrible weather, they are a hopeless driver, and they are quite late home). I know INFJs can be way closer to clairvoyant than most of us. My mother is INFJ and has some strange feelings about things that will or have happened.

On ENFP clairvoyance or deja vu, I had an amusing experience when travelling. I thought Frankfurt seemed familiar and kept getting deja vu, and I knew I'd only ever been to the airport. It puzzled me for days, then I realised I had slipped through there last trip but had mislabelled the memories as being Heidelberg .

 

[cascadeco]

Am I the only one who doesn't like associating any sort of clairvoyance or any other 'talents' of this nature with mbti at all? I think it's entirely outside the realm of mbti, and I hate having it tied to INFJ. I think it does a disservice to what Ni, and INFJ, is really about. Sure, an INFJ you know might have these abilities, but it's not because he/she is INFJ.

Anyway, more of my thoughts on this topic were in earlier posts in the thread.

 

[Skyward]

Am I the only one who doesn't like associating any sort of clairvoyance or any other 'talents' of this nature with mbti at all? I think it's entirely outside the realm of mbti, and I hate having it tied to INFJ. I think it does a disservice to what Ni, and INFJ, is really about. Sure, an INFJ you know might have these abilities, but it's not because he/she is INFJ.

Youre not the only one, maybe only because I don't relate strongly to having thise clairvoyant-esque things happening to me. I have minor stories, but I think it's just that INFJs tend to be more sensitive to it than other types. It really doesn't make us all that much better than anyone else.

 

[BlackCat]

It's in the nature of Ni to see things from multiple perspectives and viewpoints, and to have a good idea of how an event will play out. You're not psychic. You just think you're special.