[Fe] Is Fe More Powerful in Reserve?

[TopherRed]

So I have two ENFJ friends--one that is very expressive in his emotions, and one that isn't.

I like the friend who is expressive (Solomon, 65, ENFJ); he's entertaining and reminds me of myself on some of my more outgoing days. He isn't ashamed to get in your face and let you know where you could improve as a person. Social nicities mean everything to him, but aside from that, he's no respecter of men, and other conventions don't hold as much weight. He's an unmarried elder at my church (pretty sure he's straight, got jilted at the alter a long time ago, committed himself to God)--someone the F men look up to as a mentor and a guide.

My second friend holds his emotions in reserve (Daniel, 21, ENFJ). He's very much an ENFJ, Fe is primary and he thinks in basically the same manner as I did at his age (he's 21, believe it or not, three years can make a difference). This ENFJ has no issues dating, takes competition seriously, is much more of what I would like to be--a man's man. His secret? He isn't expressive with everything he does. People have to be paying attention to get his feel on things. He holds power in reserve.

What I want to know, from those of you who either are, or have experienced Fe-primary in a significant way, is how do you (or how have you seen people) handle Fe? What is the real next step in Fe maturity and growth? (what did your growth look like when you were my age?) What have you seen, married ENFJ men (if there are any on here), of this power of Fe? Were you always pretty volitile, or did you hold it in reserve before you found the right one?

I'm trying to figure out what my next step is in maturity and growth. I've realized most girls (that's important to me, btw, how girls see me) respond a lot better when the emo-gradient is less extreme...less revealing...creates more mystery.

Are ENFJs really supposed to be the most "introverted of all the extraverted types"?

--Fuzz

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

Are ENFJs really supposed to be the most "introverted of all the extraverted types"?

No. All four extroverted intuitive types have made the same claim.

 

[Totenkindly]

Are ENFJs really supposed to be the most "introverted of all the extraverted types"?

No. All four extroverted intuitive types have made the same claim.

True. I've heard it before from them all.

I think it helps me with ENFJ to remember that, although there is an "E" there in front, they're the extroverted kin to INFJ, and INFJs are very self-protective by nature... engaging through Fe very strongly but there is always something underneath that is very very protected and that only the proven trustworthy get to see.

Being primary Fe might distract others from that reality but it's still there underneath.

 

[BlackCat]

I think that this is because male EXFJs tend to not really... ah... "fit in", especially not male ENFJs. Male F's just don't live up to society's image of a typical male (same with female T's), and it seems that gender values make male F's suppress this side of them.

And ENTPs are probably the most "introverted" (not needing people) extrovert. They lead with Ne, which is entirely an internal process, and they are T's, so they don't really need people as much.

 

[fill]

I'm simply answering the title:

Yes, it is, and it's one of the biggest bitches when trying to be honest with someone.

In response to your question:

I don't think you can just focus on one function and try to mature; other functions have to play a role in doing so. If you're trying to mature Fe, try out Ti?

 

[Drezoryx]

here is an interesting link for enfj EIE male and female - Wikisocion

the 65 year old guy is probably keeping a facade of niceties going on and turned his anger inwards as a cover on the real intense emotions because not everyone can handle the intensity of an enfj. Same with the 21 year old guy who is quiet, when he integrates better socially the niceties will come in his behaviour too, let the facade evolve.

theres a catch though the extroversion is so powerful, when it comes, specially when supported with deep knowledge, that it can be very difficult an act to follow up even for ourselves so we just tend to slip into introversion professionally more easily than take on extroverted tasks.

people are fragile. our facade (which becomes second nature with time) of introversion is best for others and ourselves eventually.

 

[TopherRed]

^I use Ti on a frequent basis, though it's clear to me that I'm no where near as good at it as someone who was born using it. When I talk to a Ti, I lay down the general perception and they elaborate.

I'm noticing that my primary function might need to be weilded differently in order to acheive results in areas of my life that are important to me. How others see me, for instance, is of grave importance--I need to be socially perfect; razor sharp to get things done. This sounds like a neurosis to most Fi's, but I find that a little sharpening/tuning of my Fe helps me to do great things. It's a stubborn function though, almost metal in composition--the easiest times of personal change for me are during times when the heat is on...when the metal is molten is the best time to reshape it.

 

[Happyman]

here is an interesting link for enfj EIE male and female - Wikisocion

That's so accurate, it's scary.
Thanks for the link!

 

[TopherRed]

here is an interesting link for enfj EIE male and female - Wikisocion

the 65 year old guy is probably keeping a facade of niceties going on and turned his anger inwards as a cover on the real intense emotions because not everyone can handle the intensity of an enfj. Same with the 21 year old guy who is quiet, when he integrates better socially the niceties will come in his behaviour too, let the facade evolve.

theres a catch though the extroversion is so powerful, when it comes, specially when supported with deep knowledge, that it can be very difficult an act to follow up even for ourselves so we just tend to slip into introversion professionally more easily than take on extroverted tasks.

people are fragile. our facade (which becomes second nature with time) of introversion is best for others and ourselves eventually.

Do you think it's safe to adopt this now? I'm very good at facades...I used to think that it was wrong to "become something I'm not", but now I just realize that the facades are optional aspects--pieces of the eight functions that I can choose to adopt, or not for an extended period of time. My father's Te preference for instance--for a period of time, I am capible of becoming mean and enjoying the suffering of others who "deserve it", and I occasionally want to conquer Canada "for the hell of it", and then go out to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and hang him in Times Square, but I don't choose to keep that mask on, as it's of no use to me except with other Te's.

The problem is, I don't know what to call this new grounded persona yet.

 

[Tallulah]

I'd probably find the more reserved one more attractive. There's something hot about knowing it's in there, but only you get to see it. *shrugs*

I don't care for people who "tell it like it is," in the sense of telling you what you need to do with your life, unsolicited.

 

[Drezoryx]

Do you think it's safe to adopt this now? I'm very good at facades...I used to think that it was wrong to "become something I'm not", but now I just realize that the facades are optional aspects--pieces of the eight functions that I can choose to adopt, or not for an extended period of time. My father's Te preference for instance--for a period of time, I am capible of becoming mean and enjoying the suffering of others who "deserve it", and I occasionally want to conquer Canada "for the hell of it", and then go out to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and hang him in Times Square, but I don't choose to keep that mask on, as it's of no use to me except with other Te's.

The problem is, I don't know what to call this new grounded persona yet.

Its possible you're getting those childish ideas because as an enfj Te would be a less developed cognitive function working at the level of a 4-6 year old.

A healthy enfj would use more of his primary 2 cognitive functions till the tertiary develops with age, that would be Ni and Fe. Even then Te would need to be kept in check by Fi otherwise unethical decisions could be taken. Thats what i gathered from one of the long threads earlier here.

 

[Drezoryx]

^I use Ti on a frequent basis, though it's clear to me that I'm no where near as good at it as someone who was born using it. When I talk to a Ti, I lay down the general perception and they elaborate.

I'm noticing that my primary function might need to be weilded differently in order to acheive results in areas of my life that are important to me. How others see me, for instance, is of grave importance--I need to be socially perfect; razor sharp to get things done. This sounds like a neurosis to most Fi's, but I find that a little sharpening/tuning of my Fe helps me to do great things. It's a stubborn function though, almost metal in composition--the easiest times of personal change for me are during times when the heat is on...when the metal is molten is the best time to reshape it.

maybe there is more to it. I found there to be two subtypes of ENFJs over here The Two ENFj Subtypes - Socionix

not sure how valid it is but i hope it helps.

 

[TopherRed]

In Socionics, the J and the P are switched.

 

[TopherRed]

Alright, so are there any suggestions as to how to control Fe? Sometimes I feel like it's a blazing star, striking out at any planets that dare orbit it. I think I'm ready to meditate or something, but I'm too full of energy and quickly get bored...

 

[Glycerine]

I am a very reserved ENFJ... almost INFJ like (haha, a very analytical ENFJ). I am nice to people at large but I am only truly expressive to those I am close to. I have noticed this effect whenever I talked with my ENFJ teacher. We would tend to deflect each other in the sense that we were both friendly but highly private. My ESFJ dad seems to be much more friendlier and open than I am. The Ni can make the ENFJ very private it seems. I don't think ENFJ is the least extroverted but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the most private extrovert.

 

[BlackCat]

In Socionics, the J and the P are switched.

Sigh. No... it doesn't work that way at all.

 

[Wonkavision]

What is the real next step in Fe maturity and growth?

Lenore Thomson on ExFJs:

.....their approach to life is guided by rational ideals, and rational ideals are maintained by focusing on the predictable--things that can be anticipated and controlled.

When EFJs rely too heavily on Extraverted Feeling, they have no way of perceiving the messy, unpredictable, irrational side of life--except in negative terms: as something to be gotten under control. This is why their Introverted secondary function is a valuable source of information. By paying more attention to their immediate reactions, EFJs learn to deal with areas of life that can't be addressed with rational Judgement.

Lenore Thomson on ENFJs in particular:

Like all Extraverted Feeling enterprises, the theories ENFJs devise to domesticate the unpredictable have unmistakable social utility. In a culture short on collective values, these types offer standards, strategies, and a common vocabulary for the kinds of relationships we regard as decent and worth persuing. They help us to negotiate our expectations of each other, to make order in the otherwise random course of human events.

Extraverted Feeling encompasses what is averagely attainable in a particular social system. The goals it encourages are not transcendingly fulfilling; they're collectively appropriate. ENFJs need more contact with Introverted Intuition to recognize that persuing rational ends doesn't, by a long shot, take the whole self into account. Without sufficient Intuition, they're prone to mistake the elimination of conflict for intimacy and good relationship, so they inevitably find new variables that threaten the ideal picture.

Ironically, the more ENFJs focus on ideal relationships, the less they recognize people as individuals. They generalize about human behavior, unable to appreciate the unique nature of another's experience.

ENFJs who cultivate their secondary function don't experience impulses that "free" them from their Feeling standpoint. They become aware of subjective experience that can't be addressed by meeting Feeling goals, experience they haven't yet tapped or taken into account. This other part of themselves requires a different kind of nourishment---kinesthetic, artistic, contemplative: a way to take shape apart from questions of a collective nature.
Recognizing this part of themselves grounds ENFJs; they begin to feel at home in the world in a new way. They become more honest about their feelings, able to tolerate disagreement with others and the effects of radically different life experiences. Moreover, they see people's genuine possibilities, and they have the drive and energy to bring them out in a way that benefits society as well.

I hope you find this helpful.

 

[TopherRed]

I can't yet fully comprehend it, but I know it's true...

Lenore Thomson on ExFJs:




Lenore Thomson on ENFJs in particular:








I hope you find this helpful.

 

[Drezoryx]

@wonkavision this book is so nice i need to buy it! thanks for the quotes!

@Fuzz in brief what the quotes from Lenore Thomson are saying is that the next level of evolution can be achieved by getting in touch with introverted intuition. This can be done by having an artistic hobby, like playing a musical instrument or sketching, or writing etc. This grounds enfjs from where they see the world in an entirely new light.

i hope i understood that right.

 

[Wonkavision]

@wonkavision this book is so nice i need to buy it! thanks for the quotes!

Hey, no problem.

It IS a really good book.

It's incredibly helpful.