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  1. #31
    Senior Member Liminality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    We can handle ourselves..just don't make it your mission to push our buttons into annihilation
    Seconded.

    That reading people bit and trusting feelings bit confuses me a tad, I'm all about the second guessing, and not trusting inner notions, partially due to their number. It's like everything's made up of sensations, colours and frequencies, and all the little vibrations move towards me and I've no idea how to interpret them and sort them out, or if they're just projection or what.

    So yeah, F isn't always about being very empathic...or at the very least knowing what to do with different 'readings'.
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  2. #32
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Ah,... It's OK to joke around once in while, but pushing them to their limits isn't a good way to determine if they are worthy of your friendship,... That prevents them from being themselves, and that is ultimately the route you don't want to take,... To understand and respect their values is what makes or breaks a friendship.
    It's not about them being worthy of my friendship, I consciously made an effort not to use that word. So don't put words in my mouth.

    What I mean is that if I want to befriend someone, I want it to last and be honest and meaningful, for the both of us. If I engage in this "act" it means I see some potential in us being good friends. So I want them to get a sense of who I am, I want them to know what they're getting themselves into. I want them to understand my way of communicating, and also understand that I mean no harm, even though I can be perceived as aggressive and offensive at times. I just want to play fair, and give them a taste of me. At the same time, I'm doing the same with them. The way they handle what I dish out, gives me a sense of whether or not we can have a solid friendship. That's why I wouldn't invest in this unless I want to be friends with you. Shallow friendships I can do in my sleep. But I want to see you, and I want you to see me. That's all.

    I won't write someone off as a potential friend, just because I didn't agree with their values. Never. We could argue about it, and I may never understand where you're coming from, but at the end of the day - I'd still respect and accept you for who you are. I don't judge someone by their values. I may question them, but unless you try to push them on me, or create a problem by clinging to your values, I'm not gonna take them into account when determining the outcome of a potential friendship. Shit, I have two highly religious friends, and I am an agnostic myself. We just talk about other things than religion, and the problems solves itself.

  3. #33
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How do you pick emotions of other people ?
    Extremely well. Too well, I absorb people's emotions for myself and I hate it when I absorb negative emotions....

    In theory this is something in what NFs are suppose to be great at. So I am wondering how this works. Do you understand what the person is feeling right away? (like you should in online tests)
    Or it is more likely that you will slowly have to figure it out through a body language/voice or somethinng like that ?
    It's intuitive process, I pick up emotions straight away. It's not logical thinking process.

    I am wondering if you try to determine this piece of information by "default" or it taks a conscious action to do this ? (or it depends)
    It's something I do naturally and without thinking. It does bother me at times and I would like to learn to shut it down, sometimes.

    Also if someone asks you how many emotions do you recognize what would you say as an answer ?
    I have no idea.

    The reason why I am asking is because I am wondering about how to have a better dinamic with NFs in real life.
    It's good that you are taking the effort to understand them.

  4. #34
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    It's not about them being worthy of my friendship, I consciously made an effort not to use that word. So don't put words in my mouth.
    I would never do that, however, if your strategy to make friends is to involve "attacks" and "acts", I myself wouldn't be a willing participant! I'm sure if it was worded differently it wouldn't have been misread.
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  5. #35
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    I would never do that, however, if your strategy to make friends is to involve "attacks" and "acts", I myself wouldn't be a willing participant! I'm sure if it was worded differently it wouldn't have been misread.
    OK. That's why I put " around attacks and acts. I think you can replace both words with behavior. I think I behave this way, when it comes to making new friends, because I think it's the fastest way of seeing if there's any potential of a lasting and functioning friendship. If I shoot for the highs and lows, and I get the desired effects, chances are I can handle whatever's in between. And vise versa. I guess you could say I'm trying to disarm the minefield. After that, we can explore each other more freely.

  6. #36
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How do you pick emotions of other people ?


    In theory this is something in what NFs are suppose to be great at. So I am wondering how this works. Do you understand what the person is feeling right away? (like you should in online tests)
    Or it is more likely that you will slowly have to figure it out through a body language/voice or somethinng like that ?

    The reason why I am asking is because I am wondering about how to have a better dinamic with NFs in real life.
    I try to become close to people, to know them. Knowing their emotional status comes from being close to a person. I can guesstimate based on experience people's or stranger's emotions.. but the more I get to know someone, the more in tune with their emotional status I become. Whereas I can guess that someone would normally be angry about it raining on their trip to the beach, I can immediately know that my best friend would be delighted to find this information out. To name a simple example.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Really does depend A.O. Sometimes it is subtle clues such as body langugae or the tone of voice, however, I also feel other people's emotions as if they are my own and so if I am around someone who is angry I can feel their anger, if I am around someone sad I can feel their pain. It is an emotion that gets created inside of me... Like osmosis or something
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    1. Body language
    2. Tone of voice
    3. Words being used
    4. Previous experience with the person and their reactions
    5. Previous experience with someone similar and the other person's reactions compared.

    If you are trying to get people to accept you for who you are you need to address a few questions.

    a. Are you sure they are NF?
    b. Are they willing to take your information into account if you explain it? Or are they determined that they are "right" about you?
    c. Have you changed and they are going on earlier data?
    d. What weakness do they have built in that might be hurting their reading of you?

    The best way to change my absorbed beliefs about you is to have you explain to me exactly what you think is going on and let me stew on it. I will not accept your explanation without taking time to analyze and see if it actually fits your (and my) reactions.

    As an ENFP I am better at figuring out relationships I'm not involved in. When they get close to me I have more trouble seeing the truth in the situation. I think that might be the Ne, Fi difference kicking in. (not sure, just a theory, don't know much about functions)

    The people who are analyzing you might be having a similar issue depending on what NF they are. I'm not sure where the water gets muddied for other NFs.

    eta: We just absorb it. It gets better over years of correctly or incorrectly absorbing data and changing the people model. It reminds me of algebra. Would you think twice to answer x + 3 = 7 as x = 4? Of course not. Even if it takes some thought it's just so built in it just happens.

    I do have to be focused on a person to be able to do it. If I don't notice a situation develop I can miss things I should have included in my person calculation.

    How many emotions do I recognize? It's not about a number, it's about what someone is like. Cause and effect. It's bigger than just "that person is scared" - I need more data. Also, the interesting part isn't that they are scared or uncomfortable. It's why they are scared. Knowing someone is scared is just data, the interpretation is the fun stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    Wow, that's interesting! I mean really, because that's absolutely not the way it happens with me. I barely look at things like that. It just hits me, must be some unconscious process. (Did I understand you properly, you look for these consciously? Must be Fe/Ne difference ).
    I see a person and I.. somehow unconsciously copy them. If they're tensed I suddenly feel tension, i.e. in my arms. If they're happy, I feel it filling me.
    I'd call it intuitive NLP.

    As for number emotions... For me it's like: how many colours are there? Well, I give them some names, but there's more to it, like shades, brightness etc. So infinite number, but grouped around some words.

    I hope this is of any help. There's a great book called 'Social intelligence' by Daniel Goleman (author of 'Emotional intelligence'), it explains most of the things you're asking. The concept of 'mirror neurons' is great. Oh, look here: Mirror neuron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Both of these I think. I think we all do both, but when you ask people you will get different responses based on how they view themselves.

    Our brains pick up on all these external signs and then fill in the blanks. In some at times this can be unconscious and they will have no idea it is going on, in others at times they will more consciously be going through all of it. I think if you combine these two, you get a great, and complete answer of how empathy works.

    This is a great question because I think it is something that NFs don't really slow down and think about a lot because we are so used to doing it.

    By the way, really cool wiki article on the mirror neuron. That is definitely worth a read.

  9. #39
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    I don't know, but I get this feeling about them, and can read people pretty well. Even if they don't say much to me, I pick up on their vibes, and can get a sense at where they're coming from?

    I can even read how my friends are feeling/why they act the way they do.. I have an INTJ friend, whom, I suspected that she behaved a certain way because she was in denial and kinda resorting to doing certain things because she wasn't upfront with her feelings.. In the end, it was true, and when she called, I told her exactly how I felt prior to the incident happening, she was pretty amazed..

    Some things that help me are:
    1. Little things that people say or do tell me a lot about where they're coming from..
    2. I pick up on non-verbal cues.
    3. I can tell when someone genuinely means what they say, verses when they say it just as a way to conform or try to fit in..

    it's hard for me to describe; I just feel it.

  10. #40
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    OK. That's why I put " around attacks and acts. I think you can replace both words with behavior. I think I behave this way, when it comes to making new friends, because I think it's the fastest way of seeing if there's any potential of a lasting and functioning friendship. If I shoot for the highs and lows, and I get the desired effects, chances are I can handle whatever's in between. And vise versa. I guess you could say I'm trying to disarm the minefield. After that, we can explore each other more freely.
    No minefields here!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

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