[ENFJ] Hangin with ENFJ's = Exhausting

[Littlelostnf]

OK, I'm in serious post mood.

Once again, I quibble with these people being called immature and unhealthy. Frankly I relate to the descriptions in the OP, so maybe I'm immature and unhealthy but whatever. They sound exuberant, but I think overwhelming is relative. I don't often meet people that overwhelm me, and when I do meet people like that my interest is piqued.

I like to zing and whooooosh people. I like physically and mentally robust people, that have an air of vitality around them. When I say physically robust, I don't mean completing a marathon (I can't do that ), I mean like if you invite them out to brunch they don't need to go back home and rest. When I say mental robustness I don't mean sitting around talking about philosophy and science all day, I mean having an active and thoughtful mind that can synthesize all types of information.

I like to think I have that same air around me. I realize that some people have lower activity levels than me, I respect that, and I kind of use my whooshness to weed those people out. I do this mostly with people I know and meet casually. I realize this can be overwhelming, but that's kinda the point. And as usual, I only speak for me. I feel like being around people that lack vigor, drains me. It doesn't mean they're scaling buildings, it just means not being lifeless. I know a couple of my INTP friends I used to hang out with I'd invite them out somewhere (because I got tired of watching them play Halo and that dumbass Beautiful Katamari game!) and they'd hem and haw and say how tired they were or that they didn't feel like going out. Now I probably see both of them once every three months or so. Even though they're cool people, I feel like just me being around them exhausts them.

This is not about being an introvert or extrovert because if I listened to what was said about that on this forum, I'd feel a strong need to carry around a fanny pack of smelling salts to revive fainting and exhausted introverts. Two of my best friends that met these desires of mine are introverts and they can go all day and night.

Phoenix, I don't know what to say. Only hang out with them individually. This seems to me to be very inline with what Pink was saying in the Frustrated ENFJ thread. When ENFJs start opening up with people and you start scraping away the superficial level of Fe and getting into the deeper level of Fe+more then people start quaking. You feel like you're inhibiting a lot of yourself when you have to constantly hold back so people won't be overwhelmed. I'm not ashamed of that aspect of my personality and I don't want people around me who can't handle it, nor do I want to trample anyone. If it's too hot, then gracefully bow out.

I always advocate communicating what you're feeling although that is often difficult to do and dealing with people's possible reactions and fallout makes people often reluctant.

There really isn't much more to say. Thanks Protean for saying this. I get so tired of this type of thread myself. I didn't even feel like trying to talk about it because like Pink says it turns into a rant about ENFJ's immediately. It's funny how everyone knows a million of us but in these threads it generally some other type telling you how an ENFJ acts...not the ENFJ's themselves.

 

[Littlelostnf]

Phoenix: I apologize for my terseness. You would have no way of knowing the back history of the treatment of ENFJs here. Protean and I have waded through A LOT of this sort of thing (while wading through even more "INFJs are Angels That Taste like Candy Pressed in Awesome Gold Stuff That Holds It Value Even in a Down Market!!11one!1" threads while watching many of the few ENFJ threads either start out as a gripe or turn into one).

It's not this way anymore largely, but when I first got here ENFJs were treated like the absolute devil, even by people who'd never met one because the THEORY of us scared them. REALLY. For a long time, all we were getting told was how overpowering and unmanageable we were, and that has totally drained my patience (after being patient and explanatory ad nauseum). I make it my business to understand people and be understanding, but this is repetitiveness is well past my patience.

For this, I iterate my apologies. But now you know the lay of the land.

My twin sister, LadyJaye, said it best so I leave it to her.

I've been with this forum since before it was this forum...let's go back to INTPcentral...and it's always been like this about ENFJ's...thank goodness we're fairly cool about ourselves. My patience has been beyond drained about how evil we are and how overpowering and exhausting and blah blah blah. Especially by all these people who have SOOO many of us in their lives. There is no excuse for hurting peoples feelings but what really kills me is that first I know one other ENFJ in real life...a guy and he goes out of his way not to hurt feelings...there are many things I could say about him but hurting feelings....I don't identify so much with the original post about going on and on because I don't...the one time a friend an INTP told me I'd hurt his feelings without knowing I was crushed and made it a point never to do it again...do the point where he wanted to know what was wrong with me at times because since I hadn't realized the first time that I'd hurt him I was so afraid of doing it without knowing again that it stunted my communication with him.

I love the ENFP who said you ENFJ's should just take the criticism and be better.....please criticize other types and they immediately start telling you just why you're crazy and how they are so awesome...and what's wrong with you!

Original poster if you have two friends that work together to get on your nerves...sound advice (I think by an ENFJ) was to pull them aside and let them know....individually. Like Pink said there is a SLEW of ENFJ's TO MUCH threads to be found. Try reading some back info. As for me I post so little because I can only take being told how terrible and overwhelming I am..so much. Especially by the same types who definitely can't handle the criticism and turn their criticism into jokes and "you just don't get us:" at the first opportunity. I have to say when it comes to be being criticized check the threads...the ENFJ tend to say...know what I can see that but "perhaps...or have you thought that....or try this.... If we joke...we immediately can't take it or..."That's how you are get over it and be better" Like Pink I'm so out of patience with this constant "be better like me" type attitude...
I'm so glad there are hardly any ESFJ's on this forum..they would shrivel up and die with the constant criticism.

Pink, Protean, other fellow ENFJ'er...keep strong!

 

[Happyman]

You would have no way of knowing the back history of the treatment of ENFJs here. Protean and I have waded through A LOT of this sort of thing (while wading through even more "INFJs are Angels That Taste like Candy Pressed in Awesome Gold Stuff That Holds It Value Even in a Down Market!!11one!1" threads while watching many of the few ENFJ threads either start out as a gripe or turn into one).

when I first got here ENFJs were treated like the absolute devil, even by people who'd never met one because the THEORY of us scared them. REALLY. For a long time, all we were getting told was how overpowering and unmanageable we were,

I've been with this forum since before it was this forum...let's go back to INTPcentral...and it's always been like this about ENFJ's...thank goodness we're fairly cool about ourselves. My patience has been beyond drained about how evil we are and how overpowering and exhausting and blah blah blah.

Oh...! I can't believe I've missed so much!
Nobody will bash me? Please do!
I wanna feel special!

OK, seriously I don't feel bashed at all, so I guess it must have finished. And I like some rational critique.

 

[Littlelostnf]

Oh...! I can't believe I've missed so much!
Nobody will bash me? Please do!
I wanna feel special!

OK, seriously I don't feel bashed at all, so I guess it must have finished. And I like some rational critique.

Well welcome...just start out on a I LIKE ENFJ thread and it will go sour fairly quickly....

I always welcome rational critique, I don't welcome someone telling me what I'm like because they know a million of me and they do a, b, and c. That's generally how it goes. if you're an E or a J...but especially EFJ you are...or were (I stopped reading the posts so much)..the

Go on Happyman...try it and see.

Enjoy.

 

[Happyman]

Well welcome...just start out on a I LIKE ENFJ thread and it will go sour fairly quickly.... (...) Go on Happyman...try it and see. Enjoy.

Don't tempt me, you ENFJ you!

(I'm thinking about starting a thread called: "ENFJ - Why I love myself so much", on the second thought it makes me think that I've probably lost a great opportunity to name my blog this way )

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It's funny how everyone knows a million of us but in these threads it generally some other type telling you how an ENFJ acts...not the ENFJ's themselves.

I happened to have been reading through a few of these previous ENFJ threads over the past few days because my mom is ENFJ and I was looking for insight.

I have noticed that, in spite of receiving a lot of criticism, the ENFJs in this forum are less likely to counter-attack with ‘type’ stereotype insults or condescending behavior than anyone else. They stick to saying positive things about other types more often than not, even while being criticized. Seriously. I thought this observation was worth pointing out.

“INFJs are Angels That Taste like Candy Pressed in Awesome Gold Stuff That Holds It Value Even in a Down Market”

This is hilarious. And it's totally true. We are angels that taste like candy pressed in awesome gold stuff that holds its value even in a down market.

Yeah, ENFJs can mean well but also generally have this thing that I believe roots from insecurity where their ego just takes over. They just start trying to act a certain way, and it comes across as very arrogant, it can be very annoying.

Are you sure you’re not projecting here, Goatman? I ask because it sounds exactly like an ENFP I lived with for nine years. Exactly like him. It’s uncanny how well this description fits him, yet I haven’t personally experienced seeing this in any ENFJs.

 

[Little Linguist]

Joy. More "ENFJs are Too Much" threads.

They're just jealous about how awesome we are!

 

[The Grand Chameleon]

3)Explain to them how annoying they can get, because if they are like ENFJs I have seen, they tend to always think they know what is going on in other's heads, but are many times just reading into the situation too much, and projecting their feelings and values on the person.

everything else you wrote in this thread [/end quote]

Are you secretly ENFJ? By your own definition, of course. As always, I'm just kidding (only if you are)...

 

[proteanmix]

I have noticed that, in spite of receiving a lot of criticism, the ENFJs in this forum are less likely to counter-attack with ‘type’ stereotype insults or condescending behavior than anyone else. They stick to saying positive things about other types more often than not, even while being criticized. Seriously. I thought this observation was worth pointing out.

You are not alone in this observation...I long ago noticed that the few ENFJs that breeze through the forum have started less than maybe 10 (and that's being generous) threads bashing another type.

My reason sounds like bragging, but whatever I'll go forward with it anyway. ENFJs don't often need help trying to figure another person out or how to solve a people problem. I'm surprisingly still amazed about people coming through needing help figuring out if someone likes them, or how and what to say to another person they're having problems or miscommunications with. I think it's directly related to the reason for the lack of self-identified ENFJ presence on the forum. Life is better in real time. You learn more, you experience more, you can take all that abstract relationship theorizing and idealizing that is done, put it into practice, see if it's got some legs, toss out what doesn't work, keep what does. You continually get a better idea of people and being human and all those unknown variables aren't scary or overwhelming because you've got the blueprint in your head and real know-how.

I feel like many more types on this forum are less tolerant with a wide range of people and their inevitable human strengths, frailties, and idiosyncrasies. Stuff people complain about on this forum in dealing with others, I don't even give a second thought. A guy winks and flirts with me doesn't always mean he's in love, he just likes to flirt. Flirt back, have fun, 8/10 it wasn't serious and move on! I work in an organization with 200+ people, 20 of them I come into fairly close contact with on a daily basis. My boss walks around with her head in a cloud, I have a hall monitor walking up and down the hallway, a food thief, a pious old maid, party girls and fashionistas, The Unwashed, ultra-competitive I-will-crush-you types...such an assortment of people I deal with on a daily basis and I rarely lack a method or way for dealing with them or even really thrown off by what they do. The silly things they do (and I'm sure I do silly things to them) is like water rolling off my back. The only person who has the most effect on me is my boss and that's because I work with her so closely and she often douses herself in eau de crazy. If I only wanted to deal with them if I could establish a deep and meaningful relationship where we pour out our souls over lunch, I'm pretty sure I'd lose my mind.

And all those hodgepodge mixes of people and personalities isn't something I want to run away from at the end of the day. I find meshing with all those different types of people so enriching and I learn so much about myself and others by getting into the fray with other people.

LOL, I wrote all this and forgot my point! Anyway, thanks Mr. McFate. No one is against valid criticism. Even though there are more complaints about ENFJ and ExFJs in general, I still look to see if I have any of the faults that get the most criticism. The forum has been genuinely helpful for me in that respect because I have checked myself on some of those behaviors. I'll never be perfect but I can be better. But I know I'm not the devil or the sinner closest to hell's gates either and my bad traits are balanced with good traits as well.

 

[Phoenix_400]

I've been debating on whether or not to post this, but....screw it


I'm trying to be the bigger man here, but this is ridiculous. Sometime in the night, my thread turned into a pity party.

"Oh, we're sooooo misunderstood"
"But we're so awesome, those who criticize us are obviously fools"
"Indeed, they should only sing our praises. To those who find the slightest amount of issue with us; Bring the Torches!"

Maybe its from my time in the military, but I've learned to work with people from all walks of life. I've learned to appreciate people because they are different. I've learned that, even though we might despise each other, I still have to trust you to drag me off the battlefield if things go bad..and you have to do the same.

So many people out there want to demonize others. I've spent time around the Iraqi's and the Afgani's. They've risked their lives to come work on base as contractors to make life better. I've joked with them. They're human just like everybody else. Some people don't see that. They just see them all as "The Enemy".

I'm deeply saddened that some of the people on this forum have become so jaded over mere words on a screen written by people they don't even really know. You've lost your ability to take each thread as an individual opinion. It just automatically gets catergorized as "The Enemy" has returned, with no deeper thought into it.

Would it really have been so hard to just ignore the thread if you took great issue with it? I don't understand this. Its an online forum, not a face to face gathering. The doors aren't barred and nobody is forcing us to interact.

I came here looking for honest advice. Some of you have given me that and for that I am very grateful. To some of the others on here though......

*shakes head and walks away*

This thread has ceased being productive in any way. If its just going to continue like this, I recommend this thread be locked. No point in taking up space on the server with it.

If anyone needs me, I'll be in my hole.

 

[proteanmix]

Phoenix, I wasn't offended by what you wrote. I had to get over that a good while ago. Honesty, is encouraged, but don't be surprised when people fire back.

Here's that other thread I was talking about with the same practically the same title: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-amazing-exhausting.html?highlight=exhausting Maybe there are pointers in that thread you may find helpful, although I'm pretty sure my commentary was pretty much the same. But I also want to say, you just joined within the last week. Do a search with ENFJ in the title and you'll see the tone of most of the threads. They are mostly complaints. Do a search with ENFP or ENTP in the title and you'll find a broader spectrum of topics. Some of the ENFJ members that have been here for a while have said one of the reasons why they don't comment or participate as much is the tone: typically overbearing, bossy, and completely irrational and illogical. The bulk of threads about ENFJs don't even have mostly ENFJs commenting on them. So, it's not about not being able to take your lumps gracefully, it's like getting continuously pelted with stones and being required to stand up and yell "I'm OK!" Every type, every person has legitimate improvement points and I'm not denying that or trying to gloss over it.

If I wasn't clear, I was saying that thing which you find exhausting seems to be quite common among ENFJs, or more broadly ExFx. You've been a good sport in handling your ENFJ friends. If they are overexhausting you then reduce contact. If you find them insensitive then either communicate that to them or once again, reduce contact with them. Honestly, I'd just stop hanging out with them together as much. I've done that with my lower-activity level friends and I still consider them friends, we just don't hang out in person but every once in a while. Aside from either talking to them about the problems or reducing contact, what more can be done?

 

[Usehername]

IDK, I kinda agree with Phoenix. His OP was written with the intent to speak wisdom specifically into his highlighted issue between him and two of his friends, he wasn't looking to say anything other than, "I can't keep up, any advice?" He didn't make any negative judgments, he just stated facts (he and they are not in the same energy-level league) and asked for help. Given that premise, some of the responses in the thread were a little whiny and off-topic.

Also, I read through the other thread and as many people know I ENFJs, I know that there's at least one long and near-entirely positive ENFJ thread because I started it myself, and I'm wondering if maybe some ENFJs are being hyperaware of the negatives to the point that they are blinded to the amount of positives being shared about them.

I think extraverts in general take more hits on online forums simply because intraverts tend to dominate (which doesn't make it right, just an observation), and I don't necessarily see the ENFJs taking any more hits than any other extraverted type.

Without intending to make judgments about this next statement: maybe if some of the ENFJs who felt they were getting a bad rap on the forum made a conscious effort to not hone in on the negatives that come their way so that they aren't missing the many positives? The thread Protean linked has lots of positives in there. There are certainly positive comments about ENFJs out there on the boards, I'm doing my best to spread the ENFJ and I'm not the only one!

 

[Happyman]

IDK, I kinda agree with Phoenix. His OP was written with the intent to speak wisdom specifically into his highlighted issue between him and two of his friends, he wasn't looking to say anything other than, "I can't keep up, any advice?"

Yeah, I totally agree. Let's just shut this stupid thread. He got his advice, I don't think anybody got offended (there was just one person here who started some strange generalizations, the rest and that includes Phoenix especially were very cool).

proteanmix: I understand there might have been something stupid before, but let's drop it now. I think we're overreacting here, a little bit - as for what have been said here. I believe everyone here agrees that making generalizations like 'XXXXs they're this or that', 'all of them act that way' are stupid and bring nothing to the table.

Phoenix: Nobody's attacking you, man! All this, 'Oh, they're bashing ENFJs' is not pointed at you. Also all the ramble was not caused by you - you've asked normal questions.
I think you're pretty sensitive guy, feeling responsible for all this - maybe that's the problem with your friends too? You kind of take it personally, and they treat it like a game, something they keep emotional distance from?

ANYWAY I think it ended up pretty well. Phoenix got his advice and ENFJs got a chance to voice concerns with past workings of the forum. I, personally, don't see anything more to say.

You can tell us how it's doing with your two ENFJ friends though!

 

[proteanmix]

Alright.

In my post, I tried to explain, I LIKE that energy and I'll probably do more to feed it. I have acted a total fool with people than can keep up. I view his ENFJ friends acting like that as they are opening up towards him. But it's too much, am I interpreting that correctly?

If it's too much, then either he says, "Guys, you're getting to be too much" and talks to them about it or stops hanging out with them at the same time. Maybe some other ENFJs can give advice on what to do? When I have friends that are obviously different energy levels than me, I stop hanging out with them as much or do more sedate activities with them. I do not lie to you I see my INTP friends once, every three months, we sit and have some great conversations.

But like I said, in all honesty, I can't help but view them as having less gusto and think they should be in a rocking chair. Which nothing is wrong with, but it does somewhat let me know that I can't go all the way with them, which does hamper the development of the friendship. It puts them in a certain zone and the people that can handle "more" I feel more comfortable being myself around. And me friends that can handle "more" have no problems telling me about myself and I'm receptive to them because they've know me better.

Bottom line is basically how to reconcile the different energy levels. Options:
Talk it out--let them know when they're going below belt...or hit them below belt when they go there
Hang out less as a group or only individually
Maybe think of less tiring activities?

For the talking out part here's an example of a way you can start the conversation. Use a recent incident where you feel the ribbing got too intense and bring it up casually ALONE, with the friend you're closest with.

"Hey, [ENFJ]. Can we get serious for a minute? I want to talk to you about something I've noticed. Sometimes, when me, you, and [other ENFJ] get together, I'll sometimes feel overwhelmed. I know we're just playing around but sometimes the joking gets a little too personal." Give a couple of examples of examples of this. "What do you think? Do you see what I'm saying?"

Or you can hit below the belt when they go there and eventually it'll stop or they'll be the ones initiating the conversation. Or they'll stop hanging out with you as much. I understand that you're saying you don't want to not be friends with them anymore, but if they don't realize there's a problem nothing will change unless you say something. It's hard conversation to start because you're unsure of their reaction. But you've got to start it, if you want this problem solved since you're the one who bears the brunt of their synergy and they seem to not notice or notice minimally and the get caught up again.

I'm sorry you feel so banged up, I don't think it's intentional.

 

[ceecee]

"Hey, [ENFJ]. Can we get serious for a minute? I want to talk to you about something I've noticed. Sometimes, when me, you, and [other ENFJ] get together, I'll sometimes feel overwhelmed. I know we're just playing around but sometimes the joking gets a little too personal." Give a couple of examples of examples of this. "What do you think? Do you see what I'm saying?"

This. And have examples, even if you have to write them down. I can't stress that enough. They are fair and they will understand but you have to present it in a logical way, at least that is how I approach my ENFJ. It is your responsibility to make your needs understood by them, not the other way around and that's not a type thing.

There are certainly positive comments about ENFJs out there on the boards, I'm doing my best to spread the ENFJ and I'm not the only one!

Nope, not the only one. There is much wonderfulness about ENFJ's but they are not without flaws and a few of those drive me crazy. The positive generally outweighs the negative, in my experience.

 

[Domino]

He doesn't seem like a jerk, but I don't like that his first post here was a complaint. He can "shake his head" at me all he wants.

 

[Usehername]

I'm sorry you feel so banged up, I don't think it's intentional.

I don't think he felt "banged up" I think he just saw a lot of the responses to be completely irrelevant to the thread. With my read, Protean, your original responses were on topic and relevant, but then other ENFJs replied to whine a little bit off-topic, which spun the thread. The point where I was confused with your response was here:

Honesty, is encouraged, but don't be surprised when people fire back.

What did any of those "firing back" responses have to do with his OP? I don't think anyone's feelings are hurt, I read it as confusion and then frustration that discussing ENFJs in anything but a completely positive light turned the thread into something completely off topic.

This is my read, and seems to be in line with his response:

Sometime in the night, my thread turned into a pity party.

It looks to me like some ENFJs honed in on the idea of the OP discussing an ENFJ attribute in a negative light (which IMO he wasn't--the character traits were just discussed a pragmatic light, i.e. nothing more than incompatibility), their feelings were activated before they overrode their feelings with their thoughts. That's where it looks frustrating from my read of the thread: everything is personal.

(Which is cool that that's the autopilot for some ENFJs, and even endearing, but patience-testing when the ENFJs don't take the mature route of overriding their emotional reactions to examine the specific situation and see if an emotional response is called for, or if they should choose not to respond to the thread because they're off-topic, or move their legitimate but off-topic concerns to another thread... there were just many other more mature choices available for people to take other than spinning the thread off topic.)

 

[Phoenix_400]

Usehername: You got it! Thank You!

ANYWAY I think it ended up pretty well. Phoenix got his advice and ENFJs got a chance to voice concerns with past workings of the forum. I, personally, don't see anything more to say.

I'm in complete agreement. I think this is good place to end this thread.

 

[Little Linguist]

I'm going to rant about this in my blog before I get in trouble for trolling here.

 

[Poki]

An I type will NEVER meet the social energy of an ENFJ. When my wife gets in one of these "extreme energy" moods I just let it go and dont try to match it. There could be a group of 7 sitting around the table and she is the one who holds the conversation 90% of the time and everyone enjoys it. They can get a group laughing, sometimes its at the expense of others. Think of it like a comedian talking about his family, they stretch and bend the truth to hit maximum effect with feelings. Put them in a serious setting in a group and you will start to see them get unsure of themselves. They are there to get everyone to have a good time.

Her energy when things are supposed to be fun is to much for me individually, I actually prefer group settings because it takes some of it off of me and she can let her energy ramp up instead of holding back. Things like going out shopping, driving around, etc when she is not trying to "make" me happy, we really have a good time. Can the OP give more specific examples of what exactly bothers you? From the sounds it is not the energy, but the context of where there conversations go when they reach this high state of energy. They go for maximum effect and sometimes it ends up being at the expense of others.