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  1. #51
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Phoenix, I wasn't offended by what you wrote. I had to get over that a good while ago. Honesty, is encouraged, but don't be surprised when people fire back.

    Here's that other thread I was talking about with the same practically the same title: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ght=exhausting Maybe there are pointers in that thread you may find helpful, although I'm pretty sure my commentary was pretty much the same. But I also want to say, you just joined within the last week. Do a search with ENFJ in the title and you'll see the tone of most of the threads. They are mostly complaints. Do a search with ENFP or ENTP in the title and you'll find a broader spectrum of topics. Some of the ENFJ members that have been here for a while have said one of the reasons why they don't comment or participate as much is the tone: typically overbearing, bossy, and completely irrational and illogical. The bulk of threads about ENFJs don't even have mostly ENFJs commenting on them. So, it's not about not being able to take your lumps gracefully, it's like getting continuously pelted with stones and being required to stand up and yell "I'm OK!" Every type, every person has legitimate improvement points and I'm not denying that or trying to gloss over it.

    If I wasn't clear, I was saying that thing which you find exhausting seems to be quite common among ENFJs, or more broadly ExFx. You've been a good sport in handling your ENFJ friends. If they are overexhausting you then reduce contact. If you find them insensitive then either communicate that to them or once again, reduce contact with them. Honestly, I'd just stop hanging out with them together as much. I've done that with my lower-activity level friends and I still consider them friends, we just don't hang out in person but every once in a while. Aside from either talking to them about the problems or reducing contact, what more can be done?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #52
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    IDK, I kinda agree with Phoenix. His OP was written with the intent to speak wisdom specifically into his highlighted issue between him and two of his friends, he wasn't looking to say anything other than, "I can't keep up, any advice?" He didn't make any negative judgments, he just stated facts (he and they are not in the same energy-level league) and asked for help. Given that premise, some of the responses in the thread were a little whiny and off-topic.

    Also, I read through the other thread and as many people know I ENFJs, I know that there's at least one long and near-entirely positive ENFJ thread because I started it myself, and I'm wondering if maybe some ENFJs are being hyperaware of the negatives to the point that they are blinded to the amount of positives being shared about them.

    I think extraverts in general take more hits on online forums simply because intraverts tend to dominate (which doesn't make it right, just an observation), and I don't necessarily see the ENFJs taking any more hits than any other extraverted type.

    Without intending to make judgments about this next statement: maybe if some of the ENFJs who felt they were getting a bad rap on the forum made a conscious effort to not hone in on the negatives that come their way so that they aren't missing the many positives? The thread Protean linked has lots of positives in there. There are certainly positive comments about ENFJs out there on the boards, I'm doing my best to spread the ENFJ and I'm not the only one!
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #53
    Senior Member Happyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    IDK, I kinda agree with Phoenix. His OP was written with the intent to speak wisdom specifically into his highlighted issue between him and two of his friends, he wasn't looking to say anything other than, "I can't keep up, any advice?"
    Yeah, I totally agree. Let's just shut this stupid thread. He got his advice, I don't think anybody got offended (there was just one person here who started some strange generalizations, the rest and that includes Phoenix especially were very cool).

    proteanmix: I understand there might have been something stupid before, but let's drop it now. I think we're overreacting here, a little bit - as for what have been said here. I believe everyone here agrees that making generalizations like 'XXXXs they're this or that', 'all of them act that way' are stupid and bring nothing to the table.

    Phoenix: Nobody's attacking you, man! All this, 'Oh, they're bashing ENFJs' is not pointed at you. Also all the ramble was not caused by you - you've asked normal questions.
    I think you're pretty sensitive guy, feeling responsible for all this - maybe that's the problem with your friends too? You kind of take it personally, and they treat it like a game, something they keep emotional distance from?

    ANYWAY I think it ended up pretty well. Phoenix got his advice and ENFJs got a chance to voice concerns with past workings of the forum. I, personally, don't see anything more to say.

    You can tell us how it's doing with your two ENFJ friends though!
    "Act as though it was impossible to fail."
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    I started a real blog!

  4. #54
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Alright.

    In my post, I tried to explain, I LIKE that energy and I'll probably do more to feed it. I have acted a total fool with people than can keep up. I view his ENFJ friends acting like that as they are opening up towards him. But it's too much, am I interpreting that correctly?

    If it's too much, then either he says, "Guys, you're getting to be too much" and talks to them about it or stops hanging out with them at the same time. Maybe some other ENFJs can give advice on what to do? When I have friends that are obviously different energy levels than me, I stop hanging out with them as much or do more sedate activities with them. I do not lie to you I see my INTP friends once, every three months, we sit and have some great conversations.

    But like I said, in all honesty, I can't help but view them as having less gusto and think they should be in a rocking chair. Which nothing is wrong with, but it does somewhat let me know that I can't go all the way with them, which does hamper the development of the friendship. It puts them in a certain zone and the people that can handle "more" I feel more comfortable being myself around. And me friends that can handle "more" have no problems telling me about myself and I'm receptive to them because they've know me better.

    Bottom line is basically how to reconcile the different energy levels. Options:
    Talk it out--let them know when they're going below belt...or hit them below belt when they go there
    Hang out less as a group or only individually
    Maybe think of less tiring activities?

    For the talking out part here's an example of a way you can start the conversation. Use a recent incident where you feel the ribbing got too intense and bring it up casually ALONE, with the friend you're closest with.

    "Hey, [ENFJ]. Can we get serious for a minute? I want to talk to you about something I've noticed. Sometimes, when me, you, and [other ENFJ] get together, I'll sometimes feel overwhelmed. I know we're just playing around but sometimes the joking gets a little too personal." Give a couple of examples of examples of this. "What do you think? Do you see what I'm saying?"

    Or you can hit below the belt when they go there and eventually it'll stop or they'll be the ones initiating the conversation. Or they'll stop hanging out with you as much. I understand that you're saying you don't want to not be friends with them anymore, but if they don't realize there's a problem nothing will change unless you say something. It's hard conversation to start because you're unsure of their reaction. But you've got to start it, if you want this problem solved since you're the one who bears the brunt of their synergy and they seem to not notice or notice minimally and the get caught up again.

    I'm sorry you feel so banged up, I don't think it's intentional.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #55
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    "Hey, [ENFJ]. Can we get serious for a minute? I want to talk to you about something I've noticed. Sometimes, when me, you, and [other ENFJ] get together, I'll sometimes feel overwhelmed. I know we're just playing around but sometimes the joking gets a little too personal." Give a couple of examples of examples of this. "What do you think? Do you see what I'm saying?"

    This. And have examples, even if you have to write them down. I can't stress that enough. They are fair and they will understand but you have to present it in a logical way, at least that is how I approach my ENFJ. It is your responsibility to make your needs understood by them, not the other way around and that's not a type thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    There are certainly positive comments about ENFJs out there on the boards, I'm doing my best to spread the ENFJ and I'm not the only one!
    Nope, not the only one. There is much wonderfulness about ENFJ's but they are not without flaws and a few of those drive me crazy. The positive generally outweighs the negative, in my experience.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  6. #56
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    He doesn't seem like a jerk, but I don't like that his first post here was a complaint. He can "shake his head" at me all he wants.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  7. #57
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post

    I'm sorry you feel so banged up, I don't think it's intentional.
    I don't think he felt "banged up" I think he just saw a lot of the responses to be completely irrelevant to the thread. With my read, Protean, your original responses were on topic and relevant, but then other ENFJs replied to whine a little bit off-topic, which spun the thread. The point where I was confused with your response was here:
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Honesty, is encouraged, but don't be surprised when people fire back.
    What did any of those "firing back" responses have to do with his OP? I don't think anyone's feelings are hurt, I read it as confusion and then frustration that discussing ENFJs in anything but a completely positive light turned the thread into something completely off topic.

    This is my read, and seems to be in line with his response:
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_400 View Post
    Sometime in the night, my thread turned into a pity party.
    It looks to me like some ENFJs honed in on the idea of the OP discussing an ENFJ attribute in a negative light (which IMO he wasn't--the character traits were just discussed a pragmatic light, i.e. nothing more than incompatibility), their feelings were activated before they overrode their feelings with their thoughts. That's where it looks frustrating from my read of the thread: everything is personal.

    (Which is cool that that's the autopilot for some ENFJs, and even endearing, but patience-testing when the ENFJs don't take the mature route of overriding their emotional reactions to examine the specific situation and see if an emotional response is called for, or if they should choose not to respond to the thread because they're off-topic, or move their legitimate but off-topic concerns to another thread... there were just many other more mature choices available for people to take other than spinning the thread off topic.)
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #58
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    Usehername: You got it! Thank You!


    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    ANYWAY I think it ended up pretty well. Phoenix got his advice and ENFJs got a chance to voice concerns with past workings of the forum. I, personally, don't see anything more to say.
    I'm in complete agreement. I think this is good place to end this thread.

  9. #59
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I'm going to rant about this in my blog before I get in trouble for trolling here.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  10. #60
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    An I type will NEVER meet the social energy of an ENFJ. When my wife gets in one of these "extreme energy" moods I just let it go and dont try to match it. There could be a group of 7 sitting around the table and she is the one who holds the conversation 90% of the time and everyone enjoys it. They can get a group laughing, sometimes its at the expense of others. Think of it like a comedian talking about his family, they stretch and bend the truth to hit maximum effect with feelings. Put them in a serious setting in a group and you will start to see them get unsure of themselves. They are there to get everyone to have a good time.

    Her energy when things are supposed to be fun is to much for me individually, I actually prefer group settings because it takes some of it off of me and she can let her energy ramp up instead of holding back. Things like going out shopping, driving around, etc when she is not trying to "make" me happy, we really have a good time. Can the OP give more specific examples of what exactly bothers you? From the sounds it is not the energy, but the context of where there conversations go when they reach this high state of energy. They go for maximum effect and sometimes it ends up being at the expense of others.

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