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  1. #41
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK, I'm in serious post mood.

    Once again, I quibble with these people being called immature and unhealthy. Frankly I relate to the descriptions in the OP, so maybe I'm immature and unhealthy but whatever. They sound exuberant, but I think overwhelming is relative. I don't often meet people that overwhelm me, and when I do meet people like that my interest is piqued.

    I like to zing and whooooosh people. I like physically and mentally robust people, that have an air of vitality around them. When I say physically robust, I don't mean completing a marathon (I can't do that ), I mean like if you invite them out to brunch they don't need to go back home and rest. When I say mental robustness I don't mean sitting around talking about philosophy and science all day, I mean having an active and thoughtful mind that can synthesize all types of information.

    I like to think I have that same air around me. I realize that some people have lower activity levels than me, I respect that, and I kind of use my whooshness to weed those people out. I do this mostly with people I know and meet casually. I realize this can be overwhelming, but that's kinda the point. And as usual, I only speak for me. I feel like being around people that lack vigor, drains me. It doesn't mean they're scaling buildings, it just means not being lifeless. I know a couple of my INTP friends I used to hang out with I'd invite them out somewhere (because I got tired of watching them play Halo and that dumbass Beautiful Katamari game!) and they'd hem and haw and say how tired they were or that they didn't feel like going out. Now I probably see both of them once every three months or so. Even though they're cool people, I feel like just me being around them exhausts them.

    This is not about being an introvert or extrovert because if I listened to what was said about that on this forum, I'd feel a strong need to carry around a fanny pack of smelling salts to revive fainting and exhausted introverts. Two of my best friends that met these desires of mine are introverts and they can go all day and night.

    Phoenix, I don't know what to say. Only hang out with them individually. This seems to me to be very inline with what Pink was saying in the Frustrated ENFJ thread. When ENFJs start opening up with people and you start scraping away the superficial level of Fe and getting into the deeper level of Fe+more then people start quaking. You feel like you're inhibiting a lot of yourself when you have to constantly hold back so people won't be overwhelmed. I'm not ashamed of that aspect of my personality and I don't want people around me who can't handle it, nor do I want to trample anyone. If it's too hot, then gracefully bow out.

    I always advocate communicating what you're feeling although that is often difficult to do and dealing with people's possible reactions and fallout makes people often reluctant.
    There really isn't much more to say. Thanks Protean for saying this. I get so tired of this type of thread myself. I didn't even feel like trying to talk about it because like Pink says it turns into a rant about ENFJ's immediately. It's funny how everyone knows a million of us but in these threads it generally some other type telling you how an ENFJ acts...not the ENFJ's themselves.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Phoenix: I apologize for my terseness. You would have no way of knowing the back history of the treatment of ENFJs here. Protean and I have waded through A LOT of this sort of thing (while wading through even more "INFJs are Angels That Taste like Candy Pressed in Awesome Gold Stuff That Holds It Value Even in a Down Market!!11one!1" threads while watching many of the few ENFJ threads either start out as a gripe or turn into one).

    It's not this way anymore largely, but when I first got here ENFJs were treated like the absolute devil, even by people who'd never met one because the THEORY of us scared them. REALLY. For a long time, all we were getting told was how overpowering and unmanageable we were, and that has totally drained my patience (after being patient and explanatory ad nauseum). I make it my business to understand people and be understanding, but this is repetitiveness is well past my patience.

    For this, I iterate my apologies. But now you know the lay of the land.

    My twin sister, LadyJaye, said it best so I leave it to her.
    I've been with this forum since before it was this forum...let's go back to INTPcentral...and it's always been like this about ENFJ's...thank goodness we're fairly cool about ourselves. My patience has been beyond drained about how evil we are and how overpowering and exhausting and blah blah blah. Especially by all these people who have SOOO many of us in their lives. There is no excuse for hurting peoples feelings but what really kills me is that first I know one other ENFJ in real life...a guy and he goes out of his way not to hurt feelings...there are many things I could say about him but hurting feelings....I don't identify so much with the original post about going on and on because I don't...the one time a friend an INTP told me I'd hurt his feelings without knowing I was crushed and made it a point never to do it again...do the point where he wanted to know what was wrong with me at times because since I hadn't realized the first time that I'd hurt him I was so afraid of doing it without knowing again that it stunted my communication with him.

    I love the ENFP who said you ENFJ's should just take the criticism and be better.....please criticize other types and they immediately start telling you just why you're crazy and how they are so awesome...and what's wrong with you!

    Original poster if you have two friends that work together to get on your nerves...sound advice (I think by an ENFJ) was to pull them aside and let them know....individually. Like Pink said there is a SLEW of ENFJ's TO MUCH threads to be found. Try reading some back info. As for me I post so little because I can only take being told how terrible and overwhelming I am..so much. Especially by the same types who definitely can't handle the criticism and turn their criticism into jokes and "you just don't get us:" at the first opportunity. I have to say when it comes to be being criticized check the threads...the ENFJ tend to say...know what I can see that but "perhaps...or have you thought that....or try this.... If we joke...we immediately can't take it or..."That's how you are get over it and be better" Like Pink I'm so out of patience with this constant "be better like me" type attitude...
    I'm so glad there are hardly any ESFJ's on this forum..they would shrivel up and die with the constant criticism.

    Pink, Protean, other fellow ENFJ'er...keep strong!
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Happyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    You would have no way of knowing the back history of the treatment of ENFJs here. Protean and I have waded through A LOT of this sort of thing (while wading through even more "INFJs are Angels That Taste like Candy Pressed in Awesome Gold Stuff That Holds It Value Even in a Down Market!!11one!1" threads while watching many of the few ENFJ threads either start out as a gripe or turn into one).

    when I first got here ENFJs were treated like the absolute devil, even by people who'd never met one because the THEORY of us scared them. REALLY. For a long time, all we were getting told was how overpowering and unmanageable we were,
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    I've been with this forum since before it was this forum...let's go back to INTPcentral...and it's always been like this about ENFJ's...thank goodness we're fairly cool about ourselves. My patience has been beyond drained about how evil we are and how overpowering and exhausting and blah blah blah.
    Oh...! I can't believe I've missed so much!
    Nobody will bash me? Please do!
    I wanna feel special!

    OK, seriously I don't feel bashed at all, so I guess it must have finished. And I like some rational critique.
    "Act as though it was impossible to fail."
    Dorothea Brande

    I started a real blog!

  4. #44
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    Oh...! I can't believe I've missed so much!
    Nobody will bash me? Please do!
    I wanna feel special!

    OK, seriously I don't feel bashed at all, so I guess it must have finished. And I like some rational critique.

    Well welcome...just start out on a I LIKE ENFJ thread and it will go sour fairly quickly....

    I always welcome rational critique, I don't welcome someone telling me what I'm like because they know a million of me and they do a, b, and c. That's generally how it goes. if you're an E or a J...but especially EFJ you are...or were (I stopped reading the posts so much)..the

    Go on Happyman...try it and see.

    Enjoy.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Happyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    Well welcome...just start out on a I LIKE ENFJ thread and it will go sour fairly quickly.... (...) Go on Happyman...try it and see. Enjoy.
    Don't tempt me, you ENFJ you!

    (I'm thinking about starting a thread called: "ENFJ - Why I love myself so much", on the second thought it makes me think that I've probably lost a great opportunity to name my blog this way )
    "Act as though it was impossible to fail."
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  6. #46
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    It's funny how everyone knows a million of us but in these threads it generally some other type telling you how an ENFJ acts...not the ENFJ's themselves.
    I happened to have been reading through a few of these previous ENFJ threads over the past few days because my mom is ENFJ and I was looking for insight.

    I have noticed that, in spite of receiving a lot of criticism, the ENFJs in this forum are less likely to counter-attack with ‘type’ stereotype insults or condescending behavior than anyone else. They stick to saying positive things about other types more often than not, even while being criticized. Seriously. I thought this observation was worth pointing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    “INFJs are Angels That Taste like Candy Pressed in Awesome Gold Stuff That Holds It Value Even in a Down Market”
    This is hilarious. And it's totally true. We are angels that taste like candy pressed in awesome gold stuff that holds its value even in a down market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goatman455 View Post
    Yeah, ENFJs can mean well but also generally have this thing that I believe roots from insecurity where their ego just takes over. They just start trying to act a certain way, and it comes across as very arrogant, it can be very annoying.
    Are you sure you’re not projecting here, Goatman? I ask because it sounds exactly like an ENFP I lived with for nine years. Exactly like him. It’s uncanny how well this description fits him, yet I haven’t personally experienced seeing this in any ENFJs.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  7. #47
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Joy. More "ENFJs are Too Much" threads.
    They're just jealous about how awesome we are!
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  8. #48
    Senior Member The Grand Chameleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatman455 View Post

    3)Explain to them how annoying they can get, because if they are like ENFJs I have seen, they tend to always think they know what is going on in other's heads, but are many times just reading into the situation too much, and projecting their feelings and values on the person.
    [quote] everything else you wrote in this thread [/end quote]

    Are you secretly ENFJ? By your own definition, of course. As always, I'm just kidding (only if you are)...
    "In the game of chess, you can never let your opponent see your pieces."

  9. #49
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I have noticed that, in spite of receiving a lot of criticism, the ENFJs in this forum are less likely to counter-attack with ‘type’ stereotype insults or condescending behavior than anyone else. They stick to saying positive things about other types more often than not, even while being criticized. Seriously. I thought this observation was worth pointing out.
    You are not alone in this observation...I long ago noticed that the few ENFJs that breeze through the forum have started less than maybe 10 (and that's being generous) threads bashing another type.

    My reason sounds like bragging, but whatever I'll go forward with it anyway. ENFJs don't often need help trying to figure another person out or how to solve a people problem. I'm surprisingly still amazed about people coming through needing help figuring out if someone likes them, or how and what to say to another person they're having problems or miscommunications with. I think it's directly related to the reason for the lack of self-identified ENFJ presence on the forum. Life is better in real time. You learn more, you experience more, you can take all that abstract relationship theorizing and idealizing that is done, put it into practice, see if it's got some legs, toss out what doesn't work, keep what does. You continually get a better idea of people and being human and all those unknown variables aren't scary or overwhelming because you've got the blueprint in your head and real know-how.

    I feel like many more types on this forum are less tolerant with a wide range of people and their inevitable human strengths, frailties, and idiosyncrasies. Stuff people complain about on this forum in dealing with others, I don't even give a second thought. A guy winks and flirts with me doesn't always mean he's in love, he just likes to flirt. Flirt back, have fun, 8/10 it wasn't serious and move on! I work in an organization with 200+ people, 20 of them I come into fairly close contact with on a daily basis. My boss walks around with her head in a cloud, I have a hall monitor walking up and down the hallway, a food thief, a pious old maid, party girls and fashionistas, The Unwashed, ultra-competitive I-will-crush-you types...such an assortment of people I deal with on a daily basis and I rarely lack a method or way for dealing with them or even really thrown off by what they do. The silly things they do (and I'm sure I do silly things to them) is like water rolling off my back. The only person who has the most effect on me is my boss and that's because I work with her so closely and she often douses herself in eau de crazy. If I only wanted to deal with them if I could establish a deep and meaningful relationship where we pour out our souls over lunch, I'm pretty sure I'd lose my mind.

    And all those hodgepodge mixes of people and personalities isn't something I want to run away from at the end of the day. I find meshing with all those different types of people so enriching and I learn so much about myself and others by getting into the fray with other people.

    LOL, I wrote all this and forgot my point! Anyway, thanks Mr. McFate. No one is against valid criticism. Even though there are more complaints about ENFJ and ExFJs in general, I still look to see if I have any of the faults that get the most criticism. The forum has been genuinely helpful for me in that respect because I have checked myself on some of those behaviors. I'll never be perfect but I can be better. But I know I'm not the devil or the sinner closest to hell's gates either and my bad traits are balanced with good traits as well.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #50
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I've been debating on whether or not to post this, but....screw it


    I'm trying to be the bigger man here, but this is ridiculous. Sometime in the night, my thread turned into a pity party.

    "Oh, we're sooooo misunderstood"
    "But we're so awesome, those who criticize us are obviously fools"
    "Indeed, they should only sing our praises. To those who find the slightest amount of issue with us; Bring the Torches!"

    Maybe its from my time in the military, but I've learned to work with people from all walks of life. I've learned to appreciate people because they are different. I've learned that, even though we might despise each other, I still have to trust you to drag me off the battlefield if things go bad..and you have to do the same.

    So many people out there want to demonize others. I've spent time around the Iraqi's and the Afgani's. They've risked their lives to come work on base as contractors to make life better. I've joked with them. They're human just like everybody else. Some people don't see that. They just see them all as "The Enemy".

    I'm deeply saddened that some of the people on this forum have become so jaded over mere words on a screen written by people they don't even really know. You've lost your ability to take each thread as an individual opinion. It just automatically gets catergorized as "The Enemy" has returned, with no deeper thought into it.

    Would it really have been so hard to just ignore the thread if you took great issue with it? I don't understand this. Its an online forum, not a face to face gathering. The doors aren't barred and nobody is forcing us to interact.

    I came here looking for honest advice. Some of you have given me that and for that I am very grateful. To some of the others on here though......

    *shakes head and walks away*

    This thread has ceased being productive in any way. If its just going to continue like this, I recommend this thread be locked. No point in taking up space on the server with it.

    If anyone needs me, I'll be in my hole.

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