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  1. #31
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    After sleeping on it for a bit, I've made a decision. I'm gonna let things ride for right now and have a talk with them only if things get way too out of hand. I've been having a small identity crisis lately. Trying to break free from the persona I created for myself to get through my time in the military. There's some other things going on too and its all made me a bit more sensitive than usual. Again, I know they are just playing. If I can keep that in mind its easier to deal with, but my armor has taken some hard hits from other things in life.

    Another thing is I know one of them is under a lot of stress right now. They've told it seems like its coming at 'em everywhere they turn. I don't want to add fire from my direction as well.

    So, for the greater good (helping lower my friend's blood pressure), I'm going to suck it up and try to bow out gracefully during those times that gets to be too much. If it gets to the point that I just CAN'T handle it anymore, I'm going to do my best to maintain calm and sit them down for an honest talk. I know one of them, at least, appreciates that I usually handle things that way.

    Thanks again to everyone who gave their honest input on here. I understand I've irked a couple of people off with this thread. It wasn't my intention. I think I explained things as clearly as I knew how in my posts, but upon reflection, I can see how the title of this thread could've been taken in a negative light and set the wrong tone from the start. I apologize and will try to keep this in mind in the future. I would ask that all of you please keep in mind that I am an avid lurker. If I start a thread or weigh in on one, its because I need some real advice or I am honestly trying to help. I don't feel the need to be malicious on the net.

    This is a great forum and a little common courtesy on everyone's part will go a long way in keeping it so.

    Thank you all again.

  2. #32
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    OK, I'm in serious post mood.

    Once again, I quibble with these people being called immature and unhealthy. Frankly I relate to the descriptions in the OP, so maybe I'm immature and unhealthy but whatever. They sound exuberant, but I think overwhelming is relative. I don't often meet people that overwhelm me, and when I do meet people like that my interest is piqued.

    I like to zing and whooooosh people. I like physically and mentally robust people, that have an air of vitality around them. When I say physically robust, I don't mean completing a marathon (I can't do that ), I mean like if you invite them out to brunch they don't need to go back home and rest. When I say mental robustness I don't mean sitting around talking about philosophy and science all day, I mean having an active and thoughtful mind that can synthesize all types of information.

    I like to think I have that same air around me. I realize that some people have lower activity levels than me, I respect that, and I kind of use my whooshness to weed those people out. I do this mostly with people I know and meet casually. I realize this can be overwhelming, but that's kinda the point. And as usual, I only speak for me. I feel like being around people that lack vigor, drains me. It doesn't mean they're scaling buildings, it just means not being lifeless. I know a couple of my INTP friends I used to hang out with I'd invite them out somewhere (because I got tired of watching them play Halo and that dumbass Beautiful Katamari game!) and they'd hem and haw and say how tired they were or that they didn't feel like going out. Now I probably see both of them once every three months or so. Even though they're cool people, I feel like just me being around them exhausts them.

    This is not about being an introvert or extrovert because if I listened to what was said about that on this forum, I'd feel a strong need to carry around a fanny pack of smelling salts to revive fainting and exhausted introverts. Two of my best friends that met these desires of mine are introverts and they can go all day and night.

    Phoenix, I don't know what to say. Only hang out with them individually. This seems to me to be very inline with what Pink was saying in the Frustrated ENFJ thread. When ENFJs start opening up with people and you start scraping away the superficial level of Fe and getting into the deeper level of Fe+more then people start quaking. You feel like you're inhibiting a lot of yourself when you have to constantly hold back so people won't be overwhelmed. I'm not ashamed of that aspect of my personality and I don't want people around me who can't handle it, nor do I want to trample anyone. If it's too hot, then gracefully bow out.

    I always advocate communicating what you're feeling although that is often difficult to do and dealing with people's possible reactions and fallout makes people often reluctant.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  3. #33
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Phoenix: I apologize for my terseness. You would have no way of knowing the back history of the treatment of ENFJs here. Protean and I have waded through A LOT of this sort of thing (while wading through even more "INFJs are Angels That Taste like Candy Pressed in Awesome Gold Stuff That Holds It Value Even in a Down Market!!11one!1" threads while watching many of the few ENFJ threads either start out as a gripe or turn into one).

    It's not this way anymore largely, but when I first got here ENFJs were treated like the absolute devil, even by people who'd never met one because the THEORY of us scared them. REALLY. For a long time, all we were getting told was how overpowering and unmanageable we were, and that has totally drained my patience (after being patient and explanatory ad nauseum). I make it my business to understand people and be understanding, but this is repetitiveness is well past my patience.

    For this, I iterate my apologies. But now you know the lay of the land.

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  4. #34
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    It's not this way anymore largely, but when I first got here ENFJs were treated like the absolute devil, even by people who'd never met one because the THEORY of us scared them. REALLY. For a long time, all we were getting told was how overpowering and unmanageable we were, and that has totally drained my patience (after being patient and explanatory ad nauseum). I make it my business to understand people and be understanding, but this is repetitiveness is well past my patience.
    I can't help myself. There is no contradiction here? None? Not a little? Not even a smidge?


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  5. #35
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post

    This is not about being an introvert or extrovert because if I listened to what was said about that on this forum, I'd feel a strong need to carry around a fanny pack of smelling salts to revive fainting and exhausted introverts. Two of my best friends that met these desires of mine are introverts and they can go all day and night.

    Phoenix, I don't know what to say. Only hang out with them individually. This seems to me to be very inline with what Pink was saying in the Frustrated ENFJ thread. When ENFJs start opening up with people and you start scraping away the superficial level of Fe and getting into the deeper level of Fe+more then people start quaking. You feel like you're inhibiting a lot of yourself when you have to constantly hold back so people won't be overwhelmed. I'm not ashamed of that aspect of my personality and I don't want people around me who can't handle it, nor do I want to trample anyone. If it's too hot, then gracefully bow out.

    I always advocate communicating what you're feeling although that is often difficult to do and dealing with people's possible reactions and fallout makes people often reluctant.
    Yeah, I think simplest would be just to try to hang out with them individually. But I know sometimes you may not be able to really plan for or control that. Also, I don't see why if after you hang out with them for an hour or two, you can't just politely say you're tired, you need to head home and just chill out and have some 'down time', say it was fun hanging out with them, and head off. I don't see how they could be offended by that, but maybe I'm clueless and they would be.

    I also don't really see this as exclusively an ENFJ thing. There are many other types who could be just as 'exhausting' in a social sense, for those who are more extreme introverts or who get physically tired from devoting listening-energy. Pretty much any E could wear someone out (it's not really an Fe thing), and also...I's can too. My INFJ friend can exhaust me, at times, much moreso than an ENFJ I knew a while back, and I've had an ENFP friend who would also make me weary at times.

    Just try to set some boundaries, don't put yourself in situations you know will be uncomfortable in /will wear you out, and as proteanmix said at the end - don't be afraid to be honestly open - in a kind way, without putting them down, as to your own needs. Try to strike a balance.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    this is irrelevant to the thread, but phoenix 400 your attitude, writing style, and drippy Fe usage make you sound more infj than intp!

    as far as advice, this sounds like a frustrating problem. if you bring it up, talk to each one individually. let them know you start to shut down when things get so aggressive and in attack-mode. and then just play it by ear, i know i've chosen to avoid situations bc i didn't want to participate in the ensuing/inevitable pissing contest when two people couldn't let go.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies everyone. I've set myself to a course of action on this and feel I can move forward with it now.

    I have a question for you guys that took some issue with this thread. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, so feel free to tell me to piss off, but I'm curious about something.

    After trying to help one of my friends find out more about their type and connect with like minds, I've noticed something. It seems the ENFJ presence online is quite small. I joked with my friend about the fact they're probably too busy socializing and helping out people in real life to spend time cruising the interwebz. I'm wondering if all the negativity is due more to this lack of presence. Since there aren't as many here, the bad things stand out more, maybe? It doesn't get lost in the maelstrom like those with a larger online representation? If you guys really are getting flayed, I think it comes from a lack of understanding on the part of others. I find my ENFJ friends very easy to get along with 99% of the time. I know others around us have butted heads with them on more than one occasion though.

    Just something I've been pondering on. Take it with a grain of salt.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    this is irrelevant to the thread, but phoenix 400 your attitude, writing style, and drippy Fe usage make you sound more infj than intp!
    I'm interested in knowing how you came to this conclusion. I'm still not too good at determining type by action or attitude alone. Not precisely, anyway. I usually just get friends interested in taking at least some of the basic tests to find out.

    You are pretty close on in your assumption. My scores on my last 2 functions are around 60-65%. I'm still trying to interpret how this all works on a technical level, but I think that makes it a little easier for me to switch functions when the need arises. I like to think of myself as very adaptable and I strive to achieve Balance in my life. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

    It doesn't hurt that I inadvertently stepped on a hornet's nest with my very first post on this forum. I don't want people thinking I'm some kind of inconsiderate jerk

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_400 View Post

    It doesn't hurt that I inadvertently stepped on a hornet's nest with my very first post on this forum. I don't want people thinking I'm some kind of inconsiderate jerk

    I doubt people are going to think that, you were just asking an honest question and trying to get some help. Don't worry about it, your intentions were pure, NFs will be fine I think on average.

  9. #39
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_400 View Post
    I'm interested in knowing how you came to this conclusion. I'm still not too good at determining type by action or attitude alone. Not precisely, anyway. I usually just get friends interested in taking at least some of the basic tests to find out.

    You are pretty close on in your assumption. My scores on my last 2 functions are around 60-65%. I'm still trying to interpret how this all works on a technical level, but I think that makes it a little easier for me to switch functions when the need arises. I like to think of myself as very adaptable and I strive to achieve Balance in my life. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
    your Fe seems really high for an intp. it seems higher than Ti. Ti Ne is usually very effective at getting a new idea and telling a story in a way to convince others. Ni Fe is not always so good at this, it is better in the land of aesthetically rhetorical expository writing. your tone just seems more infj to me than the intps i have known, met, and interacted with.

    when i read behavioral descriptions i thought i was either infj or intp. cognitive functions made it pretty obvious i was infj and not intp. i'm 100% Ni w no additives. but this is just an uninformed hunch, so certainly discard it if it is off-base.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    Default Going off on a tangent

    Thats interesting. You've got me reflecting now. You seem very observant and I'd like to explore your idea further. I'd appreciate your perspective, if its not too much trouble.

    WARNING: I'm about to ramble here. The following are observations I've made of myself. This is in no way a complete novel (bet your thinkin' "Thank Gawd!), but it is a decent chapter (drat).

    I believe I'm very much an intp after going through the type descriptions. The long one linked over on intp.org sent a chill down my spine like nothing ever has.

    I am very in touch with my emotions, but have a hard time expressing them. The thing is the way I deal with those emotions. I don't usually know what I'm feeling at first, I just know something is up. I'll take a few days to retreat into myself and work through everything in my head to be sure of what I'm feeling. Then, and only then, do I feel comfortable expressing or talking about them.

    My emotional responses are usually pretty controlled. For the most part, I'm very logical in how I work through things. Its usually "I need to be calm about this and think my through it" or "Under these circumstances, it would be best to trust my gut."

    On the INTP side:
    When I'm bored, I build cars in my head, or computers, or networks. I can see the components fitting together, how they affect one another. I tend to contemplate the mysteries of the universe. When I'm interested in something, I'm told I "research the flavor out of it". I'll forget to sleep or eat if I'm really caught up. I bounce from subject to subject(and they are rarely related), get to know the basics and file it back if its something I know I'll be more interested in later.

    Psychology is a great interest to me. I'm a people watcher by nature. I don't care much for interacting with people directly, but I love watching people interact with one another. Its very fascinating how different types of people respond to different situations and other people.

    Its when I'm actually stuck interacting with people that I think the FJ tendencies come out. Part of it is upbringing and past traumas. A mix of politeness and, at times, low self-esteem. I also think I have a strong sense of empathy at times. I can't stand seeing others in pain, especially if I feel they've done nothing to deserve it. If they do deserve it, I can be a heartless bastard though. I also have to be careful of the fact I tend to take on the mood of others if they're sending out a strong enough vibe. Its a bit of a pitfall for me and affects my ability to be objective. In the past, I've taken on the role of adviser or mediator for most of my friends and gotten myself into trouble because I let my heart get away from me when I KNEW I was being stupid.

    I'm thinking I'm INTP with INFJ tendencies. Again, past experiences and traumas have forced me to confront my emotions and learn to accept them. I'm not shy about telling those stories either. I tell people, "There comes a point where things stop being traumatizing and start becoming morbidly humorous". Its a coping mechanism, at least.

    The INTP descriptions definitely fit me much more, in my own opinion. I'm very interested in other people's perspective. The more perspectives I can get on something, the closer I am to the truth. The problem with self-analysis is: No matter how hard you try, you're always too close to the problem.

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