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  1. #61
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Not quite. You don't marry to see if your boyfriend is marriage material do you? I think it all depends on expectations on either side. Some sort of consideration.



    Fair enough then. If you were honest with him from the start then I guess he had to see this coming. I don't quite understand the concept of staying together if both parties don't see it as having lasting potential...but if that was the deal, then... ok.
    No of course not, but I would date a guy to see if he was long term boyfriend material, so I am trying before I'm buying.

    And I'm guessing that he went into this ignoring what I was saying from the start, believing that he could be the one to change that negative view, so in hindsight both parties weren't on the same page.

    Anyway I'm glad I made the thread, glad I hashed it out and glad I got told off by a few people.

    I phoned him in the end, spoke to him for about an hour and tried very hard to get him to understand my reasons for breaking up with him.

    Unfortunately he was not really listening to what I was saying, and settled on the only concrete thing he could think of, that of him hitting on a girl whilst I was at the bar buying a drink. I honestly wasn't bothered by the actual hitting on this girl, as much as I was by it being done whilst I was there, I wasn't impressed with that but it wasn't my reasons for breaking it off. (I don't expect loyalty from anyone, so I accept from the start the inevitable, that way when it happens I don't care)

    My reasons were that I really wasn't in a healthy place right now, and that I really shouldn't have even attempted to start dating anyone in the first place.

    So the conversation was based on him apologising for something that didn't bother me, and ignoring my real reasons. Feeling like he had something concrete he could apologise for and fix in some way, and leaving me frustrated that he wasn't listening to what I was saying.

    Unfortunately he doesn't wish to give up that easily, didn't really pay attention to what I was saying, and continued to send me "lovey dovey" texts after the conversation was over. All of which I ignored, how many times am I meant to break up with him? how often do I owe him yet more explanations?
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

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  2. #62
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...take it from someone who's just been led on by an ENFP and dangled by a string only to be shut out cold, left with no explanation or closure...GIVE HIM CLOSURE...it's the very least he deserves. It is NOT fun to be in his shoes. Let him ask questions. Give him answers.

    Had this ENFP not been a coward and confronted me about the situation things could have ended very differently and amicably, but now they're a mess because he didn't have the bawls to just tell me what was up.

    I could have gotten over this so much quicker if he had just talked to me. But he didn't, and left me to deal with these feelings and unanswered questions that just ate away at me until I had a complete emotional and mental breakdown.
    I know, I am not proud of the way I tried to slink off and take the easy route out. I'm sorry to hear you got lumbered with my twin coward type.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Berbs, I think that you have been through all kinds of terribleness and back and the fact that you are still alive and kicking says a lot for you! I'm going to venture to say though that maybe you're looking for someone to fill a spot that no one but you are able to. Until that gap in your own heart is healed up, there will always be reasons that you will either choose someone who will not value you in the way you deserve or else that you push away a person who wants to love you in the way you need to be loved. It is a difficult thing to trust someone, especially if your past experiences all seem to say that it is dangerous to do so.

    Perhaps some ways to know if you're ready for anyone are:

    Do you trust any male implicitly? - No, I only trust my 2 closest female friends.

    What would a potential relationship for you consist of if sex wasn't a part of it in the first few months? (In other words, how would you build emotional and intellectual intimacy without having physical intimacy to fall back on?) - Honestly I don't know, it would feel kind of empty and confusing to me, physical intimacy is the only intimacy I allow, from there I see whether any other kind of intimacy is possible.

    Do you feel like your own emotional needs are taken care of? Do you have anything extra left to offer someone else? - No, to both counts. I thought maybe I could wing it, that I could get what I crave from someone else and from there heal enough to be able to offer something back, but that didn't really go all that well as shown by this thread. I know about the saying about loving oneself before anyone else can, but self esteem and confidence and and always have been 2 feelings I have never experienced.

    Are you ready to look for someone long term? Entering into something that you know is temporary before you even begin has great potential to hurt one or both of you. What kind of a man would you want to be your kids' stepdad or role model? - No, not really, but I am so lonely. I just want to be loved, even if it's just for a short while, it stills feels great for awhile. I didn't really think my actions through, I was so lonely for over 4yrs, I just wanted to feel something, anything to make me believe that more could be possible, and I just dived in.

    I don't know about a stepdad for my kids, I can't actually imagine any guy filling that role. I see myself as both father and mother and I see that as a permanent thing.


    Do you know what the right sort of partner would look like to you? Are there any dealbreakers? How would you know if someone were or weren't the right person? - No, not really. I just feel that I would know, that I would feel something for that person and that I wouldn't start shutting down around them. The right sort of partner is a fantasy to me.

    Have you practiced being assertive and honest with other people in your life? If you are not comfortable doing that with other people, it will be a million times harder with a romantic partner. - Yes, I have and continue to practise. I'm alot better than I used to be, but still nowhere near as assertive as I would like to be.

    Have you figured out what factors contributed to your emotional insecurities? Have you resolved them in some way? If you are carrying that baggage along with you, it is almost impossible for you to even see the other person as they are and you will be more likely to choose someone who either tries to control you or who gives into you, neither of which you can respect or trust. - Yes and no, I know what my insecurities are, I know where they come from, I just don't know how to get rid of them. I try to rationalise them away, but that doesn't work, I still feel them. I am just repressing them all the time, slapping a mask on and walking around with an air of empty bravado. I never even used to have these insecurities, they are a collection of left over baggage from my marriage. I'm at the beginning stages of therapy, the assessment stage to decide what treatment is best suited for me, I truly hope that this will help me figure out what I need.

    Could you be happy without a man in your life? Do you have other areas of your life that offer emotional support, fulfillment, and happiness? If not, too much rides on making something successful that may or may not be a good choice at that time. - I do have areas in my life that fulfill me, my great friends, my kids, my interests. I'm quite able to fill up my 9 boxes (feel the fear but do it anyway) with other stuff, but the box that relates to a relationship still leaves me feeling lonely. I could live without a man, but I'm not sure it would be a happy choice. It would simply be a confirmation of those insecurities I have, that I am not worthy nor special enough to be loved.

    Just a few thoughts. I respect the fact that you've put all this out here for people to discuss with you. That takes a lot of guts. Obviously you do care about how you affect other people, or you wouldn't bother. You've got lots of people rootin' for you!
    I do, my few posts back of "oh I don't care" were just a reaction to other peoples reactions lol I didn't feel proud of my choice, I feel confused about what I've done here.

    I set out to sabotage the entire potential for the relationship because my insecurities were eating away at the back of my mind. I pretended I didn't care about the long term potential because I don't think I deserve that special kind of love I am looking for.

    I set it up so that I couldn't get hurt, and I quit it before my emotions could come into play.

    All of this shows me that I am actually still not ready for anything with anybody.

    Thanks for your posts fidelia, they were good questions to ask myself.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  3. #63
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Berbs, just stay understanding that he cannot help himself and keep saying no and ignoring him. You did your part now. No need to feel guilty
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  4. #64
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    No of course not, but I would date a guy to see if he was long term boyfriend material, so I am trying before I'm buying.
    Of course. I was just hinting at being friends first or something. Building some trust before venturing on. That was really just an example.

  5. #65
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Berbs, just stay understanding that he cannot help himself and keep saying no and ignoring him. You did your part now. No need to feel guilty
    Heh sadly I do, he has already texted me this morning twice. I haven't ignored him, but in being polite and replying no doubt I am confusing him, and yet I am confused. Do I ignore him when I don't want to hurt him? won't ignoring him just make it worse? is it better to just stay polite and yet firm? because that's what I'm trying to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Of course. I was just hinting at being friends first or something. Building some trust before venturing on. That was really just an example.
    Yes, should I ever decide once again to venture down this road this is definately the way I plan to do it next.

    I turned this into a sex thing from the start as quickly as possible because then I didn't have to worry about my feelings in the process, when you know it's a fling you don't give as much. It's easier to remain seperate and to keep the inner part of you locked up.

    It was silly and I should have known better at my age.

    Still it's a big wake up call to not do it again.

    I think it's best to just focus on myself right now, and to not try again until I feel better about who I am and what I feel I am worthy of.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  6. #66
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Yes, you're right. However, you should be careful. I'd suggest answering him less and less from now on. You've made your point abundantly clear, and although politely replying is softening the blow, it can also, if done too long, lead him on. He'll do it just to fuel his hope, that if you keep replying, there must still be something there. He'll do it just to hold your attention.

    Make it clear to him you didn't mean to hurt him, and that you realize this is difficult for him but that you do care for his friendship *once* the dust has settled and you've both moved on. And then suggest some time apart to lick your wounds and let time do its thing. You'll both need it
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #67
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think you've done what you needed to do regarding the guy. One thing that worries me though is you saying that you aren't bothered by someone you are dating hitting on other people (as long as you aren't present) and it's better to accept the inevitable than be disappointed.

    The problem with that is that by accepting that kind of behaviour, you are also accepting a lot of other negative ways to be treated. A man worth having isn't looking at other people to be with either to bolster his own ego or to fill some void that he's feeling. (And an insecure man either makes a controlling partner or a wimpy one). He also would never consider disrespecting you in that way.

    Again, this comes back to the issue of taking care of yourself. When others see that you value yourself enough to not allow them to treat you poorly (and most of those are unspoken messages, no big guns), they also start treating you differently and the quality of people that don't treat you well will look for an easier mark. There are so many subtle messages we send other people about what's okay with us and what isn't, how informal or close someone can be and so on.

    This is the same reason that people commented earlier in another thread about avatars. It's not that I think people shouldn't be able to express themselves. It's also not that people want to judge you. But by choosing to express only one part of yourself, sometimes it sends out green light messages to people that shouldn't be receiving them! Again, it's a way of caring for yourself so that others have clear signals of how to treat you appropriately.

    People are always testing boundaries. Even as students, we do that, seeing how late we can get away with being etc, even if we're decent people. People will go right up to wherever your line is, so it's important to draw it before the very last thing that you would tolerate (eg physical abuse). In an example like that, even disrespectful speaking and putdowns, let alone yelling or swearing can't be tolerated because it will keep escalating. The same goes for the man you are with commenting on other women or hitting on them (in or out of your presence).

    It's obvious from here that you are a smart woman who has a lot to offer, interesting thoughts, and that you are strong. It worries me when you can't see just how well you deserve to be treated by the people around you. Yeah it hurts to get disappointed and you've had your fair share of that, but I think this treatment also hurts and devalues you too which in turn causes you to make choices which deepen those insecurities which were already present.

  8. #68
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    I think Amar's right - no need to respond any more. You did right by calling and giving him your reasons. Now he just needs to take the time to get over it at his end - something he has to do on his own.

    Hope you're feeling better and that you will be kind to yourself as you get over things.

  9. #69
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    I think Amar's right - no need to respond any more. You did right by calling and giving him your reasons. Now he just needs to take the time to get over it at his end - something he has to do on his own.

    Hope you're feeling better and that you will be kind to yourself as you get over things.
    Seriously. If you were plain with him , then your part is done. If I were you I would answer his call one more time and let him know that this would be the last time - if he continued to call after that, he would only get voicemail. You're not responsible for his feelings beyond the explanatory phone call, which you've already done. And don't let him harass you into talking to him again.

  10. #70
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    That doesn't mean that other reactions are any less acceptable, though. It seems a little like you want to have your cake and eat it too (you're not the "victim" here, yes, face it, you really hurt someone - we all do from time to time). I can understand it's not a fun thing for you to do, but in the end you get what you want (out) whereas the guy has something ripped out of his life all of a sudden that he will have to mourn about. A decision made unilaterally. A little effort on your part to overcome your instinctive reaction and accomodate his confusion (within reason) seems appropriate. As does taking responsibility for the emotional effect your decision has on you...
    I agree with this.

    Though your justifications are pretty convincing, it's best to take full responsibility.

    I hope you understand that I really sympathize. I've been guilty of the same thing.

    I also agree with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think you've done what you needed to do regarding the guy. One thing that worries me though is you saying that you aren't bothered by someone you are dating hitting on other people (as long as you aren't present) and it's better to accept the inevitable than be disappointed.

    The problem with that is that by accepting that kind of behaviour, you are also accepting a lot of other negative ways to be treated. A man worth having isn't looking at other people to be with either to bolster his own ego or to fill some void that he's feeling. (And an insecure man either makes a controlling partner or a wimpy one). He also would never consider disrespecting you in that way.

    Again, this comes back to the issue of taking care of yourself. When others see that you value yourself enough to not allow them to treat you poorly (and most of those are unspoken messages, no big guns), they also start treating you differently and the quality of people that don't treat you well will look for an easier mark. There are so many subtle messages we send other people about what's okay with us and what isn't, how informal or close someone can be and so on.

    This is the same reason that people commented earlier in another thread about avatars. It's not that I think people shouldn't be able to express themselves. It's also not that people want to judge you. But by choosing to express only one part of yourself, sometimes it sends out green light messages to people that shouldn't be receiving them! Again, it's a way of caring for yourself so that others have clear signals of how to treat you appropriately.

    People are always testing boundaries. Even as students, we do that, seeing how late we can get away with being etc, even if we're decent people. People will go right up to wherever your line is, so it's important to draw it before the very last thing that you would tolerate (eg physical abuse). In an example like that, even disrespectful speaking and putdowns, let alone yelling or swearing can't be tolerated because it will keep escalating. The same goes for the man you are with commenting on other women or hitting on them (in or out of your presence).

    It's obvious from here that you are a smart woman who has a lot to offer, interesting thoughts, and that you are strong. It worries me when you can't see just how well you deserve to be treated by the people around you. Yeah it hurts to get disappointed and you've had your fair share of that, but I think this treatment also hurts and devalues you too which in turn causes you to make choices which deepen those insecurities which were already present.
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