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[ENFP] ENFP's and dumping people?

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
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infp
Not quite. You don't marry to see if your boyfriend is marriage material do you? I think it all depends on expectations on either side. Some sort of consideration.



Fair enough then. If you were honest with him from the start then I guess he had to see this coming. I don't quite understand the concept of staying together if both parties don't see it as having lasting potential...but if that was the deal, then... ok.

No of course not, but I would date a guy to see if he was long term boyfriend material, so I am trying before I'm buying.

And I'm guessing that he went into this ignoring what I was saying from the start, believing that he could be the one to change that negative view, so in hindsight both parties weren't on the same page.

Anyway I'm glad I made the thread, glad I hashed it out and glad I got told off by a few people.

I phoned him in the end, spoke to him for about an hour and tried very hard to get him to understand my reasons for breaking up with him.

Unfortunately he was not really listening to what I was saying, and settled on the only concrete thing he could think of, that of him hitting on a girl whilst I was at the bar buying a drink. I honestly wasn't bothered by the actual hitting on this girl, as much as I was by it being done whilst I was there, I wasn't impressed with that but it wasn't my reasons for breaking it off. (I don't expect loyalty from anyone, so I accept from the start the inevitable, that way when it happens I don't care)

My reasons were that I really wasn't in a healthy place right now, and that I really shouldn't have even attempted to start dating anyone in the first place.

So the conversation was based on him apologising for something that didn't bother me, and ignoring my real reasons. Feeling like he had something concrete he could apologise for and fix in some way, and leaving me frustrated that he wasn't listening to what I was saying.

Unfortunately he doesn't wish to give up that easily, didn't really pay attention to what I was saying, and continued to send me "lovey dovey" texts after the conversation was over. :( All of which I ignored, how many times am I meant to break up with him? how often do I owe him yet more explanations?
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
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infp
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...take it from someone who's just been led on by an ENFP and dangled by a string only to be shut out cold, left with no explanation or closure...GIVE HIM CLOSURE...it's the very least he deserves. It is NOT fun to be in his shoes. Let him ask questions. Give him answers.

Had this ENFP not been a coward and confronted me about the situation things could have ended very differently and amicably, but now they're a mess because he didn't have the bawls to just tell me what was up.

I could have gotten over this so much quicker if he had just talked to me. But he didn't, and left me to deal with these feelings and unanswered questions that just ate away at me until I had a complete emotional and mental breakdown.

I know, I am not proud of the way I tried to slink off and take the easy route out. :( I'm sorry to hear you got lumbered with my twin coward type.

Berbs, I think that you have been through all kinds of terribleness and back and the fact that you are still alive and kicking says a lot for you! I'm going to venture to say though that maybe you're looking for someone to fill a spot that no one but you are able to. Until that gap in your own heart is healed up, there will always be reasons that you will either choose someone who will not value you in the way you deserve or else that you push away a person who wants to love you in the way you need to be loved. It is a difficult thing to trust someone, especially if your past experiences all seem to say that it is dangerous to do so.

Perhaps some ways to know if you're ready for anyone are:

Do you trust any male implicitly? - No, I only trust my 2 closest female friends.

What would a potential relationship for you consist of if sex wasn't a part of it in the first few months? (In other words, how would you build emotional and intellectual intimacy without having physical intimacy to fall back on?) - Honestly I don't know, it would feel kind of empty and confusing to me, physical intimacy is the only intimacy I allow, from there I see whether any other kind of intimacy is possible.

Do you feel like your own emotional needs are taken care of? Do you have anything extra left to offer someone else? - No, to both counts. I thought maybe I could wing it, that I could get what I crave from someone else and from there heal enough to be able to offer something back, but that didn't really go all that well as shown by this thread. I know about the saying about loving oneself before anyone else can, but self esteem and confidence and and always have been 2 feelings I have never experienced.

Are you ready to look for someone long term? Entering into something that you know is temporary before you even begin has great potential to hurt one or both of you. What kind of a man would you want to be your kids' stepdad or role model? - No, not really, but I am so lonely. I just want to be loved, even if it's just for a short while, it stills feels great for awhile. I didn't really think my actions through, I was so lonely for over 4yrs, I just wanted to feel something, anything to make me believe that more could be possible, and I just dived in.

I don't know about a stepdad for my kids, I can't actually imagine any guy filling that role. I see myself as both father and mother and I see that as a permanent thing.


Do you know what the right sort of partner would look like to you? Are there any dealbreakers? How would you know if someone were or weren't the right person? - No, not really. I just feel that I would know, that I would feel something for that person and that I wouldn't start shutting down around them. The right sort of partner is a fantasy to me.

Have you practiced being assertive and honest with other people in your life? If you are not comfortable doing that with other people, it will be a million times harder with a romantic partner. - Yes, I have and continue to practise. I'm alot better than I used to be, but still nowhere near as assertive as I would like to be.

Have you figured out what factors contributed to your emotional insecurities? Have you resolved them in some way? If you are carrying that baggage along with you, it is almost impossible for you to even see the other person as they are and you will be more likely to choose someone who either tries to control you or who gives into you, neither of which you can respect or trust. - Yes and no, I know what my insecurities are, I know where they come from, I just don't know how to get rid of them. I try to rationalise them away, but that doesn't work, I still feel them. I am just repressing them all the time, slapping a mask on and walking around with an air of empty bravado. I never even used to have these insecurities, they are a collection of left over baggage from my marriage. I'm at the beginning stages of therapy, the assessment stage to decide what treatment is best suited for me, I truly hope that this will help me figure out what I need.

Could you be happy without a man in your life? Do you have other areas of your life that offer emotional support, fulfillment, and happiness? If not, too much rides on making something successful that may or may not be a good choice at that time. - I do have areas in my life that fulfill me, my great friends, my kids, my interests. I'm quite able to fill up my 9 boxes (feel the fear but do it anyway) with other stuff, but the box that relates to a relationship still leaves me feeling lonely. I could live without a man, but I'm not sure it would be a happy choice. It would simply be a confirmation of those insecurities I have, that I am not worthy nor special enough to be loved.

Just a few thoughts. I respect the fact that you've put all this out here for people to discuss with you. That takes a lot of guts. Obviously you do care about how you affect other people, or you wouldn't bother. You've got lots of people rootin' for you!

I do, my few posts back of "oh I don't care" were just a reaction to other peoples reactions lol I didn't feel proud of my choice, I feel confused about what I've done here.

I set out to sabotage the entire potential for the relationship because my insecurities were eating away at the back of my mind. I pretended I didn't care about the long term potential because I don't think I deserve that special kind of love I am looking for.

I set it up so that I couldn't get hurt, and I quit it before my emotions could come into play.

All of this shows me that I am actually still not ready for anything with anybody.

Thanks for your posts fidelia, they were good questions to ask myself. :hug:
 

Amargith

Hotel California
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Berbs, just stay understanding that he cannot help himself and keep saying no and ignoring him. You did your part now. No need to feel guilty :hug:
 

Moiety

New member
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Aug 3, 2008
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5,996
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No of course not, but I would date a guy to see if he was long term boyfriend material, so I am trying before I'm buying.

Of course. I was just hinting at being friends first or something. Building some trust before venturing on. That was really just an example.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
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Berbs, just stay understanding that he cannot help himself and keep saying no and ignoring him. You did your part now. No need to feel guilty :hug:

Heh sadly I do, he has already texted me this morning twice. I haven't ignored him, but in being polite and replying no doubt I am confusing him, and yet I am confused. Do I ignore him when I don't want to hurt him? won't ignoring him just make it worse? is it better to just stay polite and yet firm? because that's what I'm trying to do.

Of course. I was just hinting at being friends first or something. Building some trust before venturing on. That was really just an example.

Yes, should I ever decide once again to venture down this road this is definately the way I plan to do it next.

I turned this into a sex thing from the start as quickly as possible because then I didn't have to worry about my feelings in the process, when you know it's a fling you don't give as much. It's easier to remain seperate and to keep the inner part of you locked up.

It was silly and I should have known better at my age.

Still it's a big wake up call to not do it again.

I think it's best to just focus on myself right now, and to not try again until I feel better about who I am and what I feel I am worthy of.
 

Amargith

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Yes, you're right. However, you should be careful. I'd suggest answering him less and less from now on. You've made your point abundantly clear, and although politely replying is softening the blow, it can also, if done too long, lead him on. He'll do it just to fuel his hope, that if you keep replying, there must still be something there. He'll do it just to hold your attention.

Make it clear to him you didn't mean to hurt him, and that you realize this is difficult for him but that you do care for his friendship *once* the dust has settled and you've both moved on. And then suggest some time apart to lick your wounds and let time do its thing. You'll both need it :)
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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May 31, 2009
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I think you've done what you needed to do regarding the guy. One thing that worries me though is you saying that you aren't bothered by someone you are dating hitting on other people (as long as you aren't present) and it's better to accept the inevitable than be disappointed.

The problem with that is that by accepting that kind of behaviour, you are also accepting a lot of other negative ways to be treated. A man worth having isn't looking at other people to be with either to bolster his own ego or to fill some void that he's feeling. (And an insecure man either makes a controlling partner or a wimpy one). He also would never consider disrespecting you in that way.

Again, this comes back to the issue of taking care of yourself. When others see that you value yourself enough to not allow them to treat you poorly (and most of those are unspoken messages, no big guns), they also start treating you differently and the quality of people that don't treat you well will look for an easier mark. There are so many subtle messages we send other people about what's okay with us and what isn't, how informal or close someone can be and so on.

This is the same reason that people commented earlier in another thread about avatars. It's not that I think people shouldn't be able to express themselves. It's also not that people want to judge you. But by choosing to express only one part of yourself, sometimes it sends out green light messages to people that shouldn't be receiving them! Again, it's a way of caring for yourself so that others have clear signals of how to treat you appropriately.

People are always testing boundaries. Even as students, we do that, seeing how late we can get away with being etc, even if we're decent people. People will go right up to wherever your line is, so it's important to draw it before the very last thing that you would tolerate (eg physical abuse). In an example like that, even disrespectful speaking and putdowns, let alone yelling or swearing can't be tolerated because it will keep escalating. The same goes for the man you are with commenting on other women or hitting on them (in or out of your presence).

It's obvious from here that you are a smart woman who has a lot to offer, interesting thoughts, and that you are strong. It worries me when you can't see just how well you deserve to be treated by the people around you. Yeah it hurts to get disappointed and you've had your fair share of that, but I think this treatment also hurts and devalues you too which in turn causes you to make choices which deepen those insecurities which were already present.
 

ergophobe

Allergic to Mornings
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Apr 26, 2009
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I think Amar's right - no need to respond any more. You did right by calling and giving him your reasons. Now he just needs to take the time to get over it at his end - something he has to do on his own.

Hope you're feeling better and that you will be kind to yourself as you get over things. :hug:
 

LadyJaye

Scream down the boulevard
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Nov 6, 2007
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I think Amar's right - no need to respond any more. You did right by calling and giving him your reasons. Now he just needs to take the time to get over it at his end - something he has to do on his own.

Hope you're feeling better and that you will be kind to yourself as you get over things. :hug:

Seriously. If you were plain with him , then your part is done. If I were you I would answer his call one more time and let him know that this would be the last time - if he continued to call after that, he would only get voicemail. You're not responsible for his feelings beyond the explanatory phone call, which you've already done. And don't let him harass you into talking to him again.
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
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That doesn't mean that other reactions are any less acceptable, though. It seems a little like you want to have your cake and eat it too (you're not the "victim" here, yes, face it, you really hurt someone - we all do from time to time). I can understand it's not a fun thing for you to do, but in the end you get what you want (out) whereas the guy has something ripped out of his life all of a sudden that he will have to mourn about. A decision made unilaterally. A little effort on your part to overcome your instinctive reaction and accomodate his confusion (within reason) seems appropriate. As does taking responsibility for the emotional effect your decision has on you...

I agree with this.

Though your justifications are pretty convincing, it's best to take full responsibility.

I hope you understand that I really sympathize. I've been guilty of the same thing. :blush: :hug:

I also agree with this:

I think you've done what you needed to do regarding the guy. One thing that worries me though is you saying that you aren't bothered by someone you are dating hitting on other people (as long as you aren't present) and it's better to accept the inevitable than be disappointed.

The problem with that is that by accepting that kind of behaviour, you are also accepting a lot of other negative ways to be treated. A man worth having isn't looking at other people to be with either to bolster his own ego or to fill some void that he's feeling. (And an insecure man either makes a controlling partner or a wimpy one). He also would never consider disrespecting you in that way.

Again, this comes back to the issue of taking care of yourself. When others see that you value yourself enough to not allow them to treat you poorly (and most of those are unspoken messages, no big guns), they also start treating you differently and the quality of people that don't treat you well will look for an easier mark. There are so many subtle messages we send other people about what's okay with us and what isn't, how informal or close someone can be and so on.

This is the same reason that people commented earlier in another thread about avatars. It's not that I think people shouldn't be able to express themselves. It's also not that people want to judge you. But by choosing to express only one part of yourself, sometimes it sends out green light messages to people that shouldn't be receiving them! Again, it's a way of caring for yourself so that others have clear signals of how to treat you appropriately.

People are always testing boundaries. Even as students, we do that, seeing how late we can get away with being etc, even if we're decent people. People will go right up to wherever your line is, so it's important to draw it before the very last thing that you would tolerate (eg physical abuse). In an example like that, even disrespectful speaking and putdowns, let alone yelling or swearing can't be tolerated because it will keep escalating. The same goes for the man you are with commenting on other women or hitting on them (in or out of your presence).

It's obvious from here that you are a smart woman who has a lot to offer, interesting thoughts, and that you are strong. It worries me when you can't see just how well you deserve to be treated by the people around you. Yeah it hurts to get disappointed and you've had your fair share of that, but I think this treatment also hurts and devalues you too which in turn causes you to make choices which deepen those insecurities which were already present.
 

Nonsensical

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Aug 2, 2008
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I haven't ever dumped anyone. It's usually me being dumped.

But if I were to dump anyone, it would be awfully hard I imagine. I'd hate the idea of it, but I guess if I had a validating reason...but knowing it may hurt the other person is a major factor. That's why I've never really been the one to do it.

But I'd never cheat, even if things were going bad. And I don't think there are any justifiable variables that make it right. Plus..if I'm in a relationship with someone, then they aren't going to be a person that I would ever in a million years think about cheating on. Relationships are hardcore. No funny business, it's not worth it and just shows you like to play games.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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Maybe this has got way more to do with a general lack of trust and fear of letting someone in close, rather than the way you choose to dump someone.

This is what I feel here. Fear, of being trapped, of not being happy, of making decisions, of really being open and honest - and I mean soul-honest.

I have felt increasingly unhappy over the last 2 weeks, I do not feel he can give me what I am looking for. I do not believe that telling him would make a difference, people can not change.

You didn't ask? You just assumed he doesn't have what you "need"? Plus, I cannot believe that you believe people cannot change. Of course people can change. Do you not think relationships are a continual balancing act, with the needs of one party overriding the other and vice versa from time to time? Communication is the key. Talking. Saying what you need. And each person giving and taking, sharing and growing. If you never actually talk to the guy, how do you expect to have your needs met? There is no magic wand that people have at their disposal to read minds.

I don't want to sound harsh, but honestly, I find it so ironic that ENFP's in general want all these "deep" relationships but bail out before they can ever get there!
 

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
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Jul 22, 2009
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I set out to sabotage the entire potential for the relationship because my insecurities were eating away at the back of my mind. I pretended I didn't care about the long term potential because I don't think I deserve that special kind of love I am looking for.

I set it up so that I couldn't get hurt, and I quit it before my emotions could come into play.

All of this shows me that I am actually still not ready for anything with anybody.

:hug:Berbs, thanks for opening up and sharing all of this with us. You've allowed us a generous peak into your personal life, and the opportunity to feel like we each have something to offer in the way of good advice. No doubt has your journey helped others and given them some direction, even if you aren't completely sure that you've found it yourself.

I think John Legend put it best when he said, "everybody knows, but nobody really knows".;) In time, you will find *your* way. None of us really has the answer, we're all searching too.
 

nomadic

mountain surfing
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Jul 15, 2008
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1,709
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enfp
i think i ended most of my relationships, except for my first one....

usually if i remember correctly, it was something that they knew bugged me, and it got to be too much bc it wouldn't stop, so it was never a surprise...

and for more casual relationships, usually i dunno. i think its more just losing touch...
 

Sacrator

New member
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Aug 24, 2009
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156
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ENFP
I've never had a lot of trouble i just see that if the relationship isn't going to work out then you might as well end it or you will just pull them further into the relationship and hurt them more when you do. As long as you have a good reason then they will understand when they calm down some.
 

tisina

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I find this really interesting, most ENFPs seem like they have a hard time dumping people. I don't at all...
I'm also good at letting friends go. I can cut emotional connections with people pretty easily...even though I don't build a lot of strong emotional connections with people anyway...

OT:
^ your name is derek! that's one of my favorite names ever.
 

ergophobe

Allergic to Mornings
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In time, you will find *your* way. None of us really has the answer, we're all searching too.

:yes:

As the lady says, don't let our responses give you the impression that we're all so sorted in this regard. I can speak for myself at least, a definitive no. :grin:

Most of us are speaking from our own experiences and are very much on the road to figuring it out as well. You've made a huge leap in understanding your own pattern. It can be so overwhelming when we come face to face with our own self-destructive behavior. Some of us have spent years justifying it to ourselves even. Real vulnerability is hard and requires much patience and tolerance - both for the other and ourselves.

You will have, as we all hope for ourselves, more opportunities for learning and love, grasshopper. As ENFPs, one of our strengths is our irrepressible optimism about the future. Things have a way of working themselves out.
 

kyuuei

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First boyfriend: I broke up with him.
Second: Broke up with him.
Third: Mutual split up.
Fourth: Broke up with him.
Fifth: Broke up with him.

.. Given my track record, I think it's easy for me to say I am usually the one breaking up with my boyfriends. I don't find this task hard or at least, I don't fear it or resent it the way some people do. It's not a plague, just an unfortunate obligation.

I think I have this mentality on it because I try so hard when it comes to relationships. I will beat a dead horse to death, and repair and mend bridges that have long been rotting away in an attempt to hold the land together.. So when it finally dawns on me that the bridge is never going to work despite all my efforts, it's almost relief to me to step up at that point and make a decision that's obviously better for both of us in the end.
 

Totenkindly

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You didn't ask? You just assumed he doesn't have what you "need"? Plus, I cannot believe that you believe people cannot change. Of course people can change. Do you not think relationships are a continual balancing act, with the needs of one party overriding the other and vice versa from time to time? Communication is the key. Talking. Saying what you need. And each person giving and taking, sharing and growing. If you never actually talk to the guy, how do you expect to have your needs met? There is no magic wand that people have at their disposal to read minds.

I don't want to sound harsh, but honestly, I find it so ironic that ENFP's in general want all these "deep" relationships but bail out before they can ever get there!

Sorry, I'm going to have to step in and push a little here.

I've dealt with people enough, and I have been in a LTR with an ISFJ, that I know that people can change a lot... but there are some ways in which they just cannot. There are also things about me that, regardless of how hard I tried (and I very much almost sweated blood over them), I just could not change.

My relationship with my ISFJ was amazing in the sense that we went from having a crappy marriage to -- after refusing to quit, over and over, even when our lives were hell -- finally we figured it all out and really learned to love each other. In the end, there were other things about me I couldn't change that are changing the dynamics of our relationship, but I really know what it means to go the distance and make something work wonderfully with someone I though was entirely unsuitable for me early on... and still bump up against the wall.

I cannot vouch for what an ENFP bases the decision of "can't change" on, but I know for me it's not a frivolous decision; my natural perception mode is knowing the essence/structure of things, and you can't turn a frog into a horse or gold into talc, no matter how badly you manipulate it.

People are the same -- they can change a lot, but in the end they still are who they are at core, and even if you CAN change them to make them fit better, sometimes that is a worse violation of their nature and it's not the best thing for them. And besides that, sometimes to make something work, even if you can, carries a tremendous cost that one or both people just might not be willing or able to pay.
 

kyuuei

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I know this wasn't toward me. I cannot help but post anyways.

You didn't ask? You just assumed he doesn't have what you "need"? Plus, I cannot believe that you believe people cannot change. Of course people can change. Do you not think relationships are a continual balancing act, with the needs of one party overriding the other and vice versa from time to time? Communication is the key. Talking. Saying what you need. And each person giving and taking, sharing and growing. If you never actually talk to the guy, how do you expect to have your needs met? There is no magic wand that people have at their disposal to read minds.

So when talking isn't enough, what then? It's not a matter of if the CAN change, of course people can. But will they? I think this answer is, more often than not, no.

I've told men before laundry lists of reasons why we could never be.. and I always hear the same thing. "Well, I think these things are easily fixed.. I think I can change that or this.." .. And when I always reply "Will you though?" I'm met with indignified insulted feelings and general disdain toward my response.

I can't imagine someone who's spent their entire lives being x or y changing suddenly and being happy and content about it. I've had boyfriends say during arguments "I will change! I will!" .. But then when the heat of the moment is over, I'm not enough motivation to truly make them change.
 
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