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  1. #151
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    I think she has a innate feeling of not being good enough. She doubts herself and her abilities, a lot. Feeling not smart enough to study physics, not motivated enough to keep up. She eventually falls behind in her studies and the negative circle of selfdoubt starts.
    She needs to start doing things that she enjoys to feel more motivated... that's what makes it happen for me.
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    Yes, she's been wanting to move out for a long time. But due to financial difficulties, lack of trying and her mom telling her it's a bad idea, she hasn't gotten to it. I don't understand why. There are student loan for her financial needs, if the motivation to move out is there - trying shouldn't be a problem and listening to her mom is just a bad habit. Frustrating.
    loans..i think part of my problem is sometimes the big ideas i want to tackle or overwhelming just thinking about them (partly due to all the different steps involved)... what seems to help me is breaking down the specific goal into smaller steps then taking one step and knowing which step I need to take after that. when a person is 24 or older, FAFSA considers a person independent and you can get some pretty sweet loans at that point (assuming you're from the USA). since you said she was 23, that provides a reasonable and attainable goal for her within the next year or so (unless she's graduating..).

    but, i agree with BlackCat's sentiment.. doing things she'll enjoy will make her potentially feel more confident in her decision making. do you think she would take a semester or even a year off school to help unbind her from the environment she is stuck in?

  3. #153
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Really? It seems like a goal of most INFPs. INFPs over the age of 30 seem a lot more palatable, and I suspect it's from a constant self-analysis and striving to meet their idealized self.

    Even at 25 I think I am already more likable, or maybe that's an improved self-esteem, which should make me more likable in theory though.

    These critique threads disappoint me, because I feel I could rake myself over the coals so much better. It's just a lot of weak, unspecific stuff; even the praise is pretty generic (and notice this thread does not only ask for the negative points).
    Hell, I don't really want to join in on the INFP take-over of this thread but I really agree with what you say here. Its tough to take criticism about the sorts of behaviour I strive to overcome - some of its the stuff I pride myself in avoiding. I think my annoyance at hearing such criticism is in its innacuracy.

    Other than myself, I have only known 2 possible INFPs, and 'whiny', 'over-sensitive', 'over-emotional', and 'touchy' would be the last words I would use to describe them. If anything, I would consider INFPs to be one of, if not the most (externally) emotionally controlled of all feeling types and perhaps even more than a number of thinkers too.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post


    This is THE fear that many INFPs harbor, as evidenced by endless postings of such on INFPgc. This is why INFPs may become withdrawn, keep a wall up, hardly talk, never call people, etc.

    If an INFP is close enough to you to whine at all, that's kind of a compliment. On the other hand, if they knew you look down on them for it, they'd probably be mortified and disappear from your life forever. Quite honestly, sometimes I test people. Can you handle the darker side? No? Goodbye! . I will never be close to someone with whom I cannot open up completely. Since people are always confiding to me in person (complete strangers even), I feel it's only fair I am allowed to vent sometimes and be vulnerable.
    So true. I wouldn't dare even vaguely open up to anyone unless I trusted them deeply. I usually don't even open up to the people that I'm really close to because (in small scale tests as you say) they either don't get it or they can't hack it. What's the point of talking about it if its going to be like that?

  4. #154
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Other than myself, I have only known 2 possible INFPs, and 'whiny', 'over-sensitive', 'over-emotional', and 'touchy' would be the last words I would use to describe them..
    The INFPs I've known well (2 like you, my aunt and a friend) have definitely been what I, an INTP, consider to be "over-sensitive" (well, the "over" part is just in relation to myself...we have no standard by which to determine what amount of sensitivity would be considered "over") and "touchy." Not to say that they are ALWAYS that way, but they tend to behave that way more frequently than a lot of people I know.

    And it's fine...that's just who they are. I don't think it's necessarily something that is especially bad about their personalities in the scheme of things. By that I mean, in the pool that encompasses all of the bad personality traits of all of the types, I don't think that being a little sensitive or "touchy" stands out as something particularly worse than any other bad trait that I could fish out of the pool. I have come to understand that such "flaws" are part and parcel to the parts of their personalities that I enjoy. They couldn't very well be such nice and empathetic friends if they weren't sensitive, and it's that very same sensitivity that leads them to act "over-sensitive" and "touchy" in contexts that I don't appreciate.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that INFPs, and all types for that matter, should own their flaws. I admit that I can be cold and inconsiderate, but it's just a by-product of traits that allow me to be good at other things. Should I work on that? Sure, if only for my own development as a person. Should INFPs work on being less sensitive? Sure, if it will give them less grief. But even if I worked on my flaws to the point of removing them entirely, I wouldn't deny that they had ever existed or ever had the potential for existing as a part of my personality. Just as an INFP who has worked on becoming less sensitive to the point of not being sensitive at all should not deny that it is (and was) an aspect of their personality.

    I just feel like there's no negative trait I could list that some INFP out there wouldn't deny as being totally off-base and therefore totally untrue of INFPs in general.
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  5. #155
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Now I'm not saying being sensitive is a 'bad' trait, as heaven knows I'm pretty sensitive myself, but INFP's seem to be really, really sensitive, and often it appears they take even constructive, relatively benign, feedback in an overly personal way. Certainly it may be understandable, given the way some people communicate, but it does seem to be a trend. I think other types are able to detach (for lack of a better word) better and view critique as more of a constructive thing - not implying the thing being critiqued is inherently bad, it just might be more palatable if honed a bit more, or said trait might be more 'powerful', positive, and useful if wielded/focused in a different way.
    Can't speak for other INFPs, but in my case, I overanalyze a lot and have whole scenarios worked out in my head, so any feedback I receive would probably match one of them. And if the feedback matches one of the gloomy paths then well; it'll just trigger a whole avalanche of negative emotions within me.

    I work as a researcher and writing research papers for journals or conferences are always a nightmare for me, because I'll go through every single sentence multiple times. I'll be putting myself in the reviewers' shoes and thinking what they would think about my ideas. And any 'negative' feedback would be perceived automatically as a personal attack. Of course I know that they are just being helpful by pointing out how my paper can be improved, but that still doesn't stop me from reacting to it negatively at first glance. It would be like telling me to totally numb my senses. I try my best to control it of course but the Fi-Ne combo can really be a very hard beast to tame.

  6. #156
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    *appologies for the length of this post*


    Salt..what you've said about her sounds *incredibly* familiar. So..I could be projecting. However, what did it for me was...well frankly..coming here. My guess is she's been told her entire life that she was never good enough. When she did something, it was either not good enough or barely tolerable. For a person who's idealistic and perfectionistic at heart..that's devastating.

    I personally did not have a frame of reference when I left home. Meaning...I constantly was on edge that what I did would be received well with people or not. And I automatically assumed I got lucky if they happened to love it. If they hated it, or didn't understand my actions, I automatically took that as me being a failure. It also means that you *stop* doing things...coz then at least you cannot do anything wrong! And if you withdraw and don't do stuff and stay in the background, then at least you're no burden to anyone but yourself.

    The reason she flourishes when she has a boyfriend is becoz someone needs her. Someone appreciates what she has to give, sees something in her that she for the life of her couldn't find. She sees all of her flaws, none of her talents. For that matter, those things that come natural to her probably are oblivious to her in that she feels *anyone* could do them, so they're not special. She probably doesn't even realize that she is a natural at them and that others can in fact struggle at those points. And having someone love you, despite all those flaws, without judgement tends to really soothe the pain. But it doesn't take away the cause. He may see you as special, and you do wanna feel that way, but at the same time you feel like a fraud..coz the only way he could possibly see you that way is if you somehow deceived him, as he's not seeing you for who you really are. Then again, if he did, he would most likely leave me..which you so didn't want. So you feel guilty about deceiving him, but need him to feel better about yourself, which causes a new set of guiltfeelings. See how that loop forms?

    The first thing I did was disable the guilt. Not easy. It's hard to believe that you're only human and allowed to make mistakes when you've been told all your life that that is the one thing you should avoid. But she needs to hear it, over and over again. And she needs to see that she too is tolerant and ok with others making mistakes and that those other people pick themselves up and go about their business without feeling guilty about making mistakes, or at least dont' keep punishing themselves for it.

    Second, I decided I needed to know what I was good at. That's when I discovered MBTI. I took a bunch of online personality tests to see what I was like. And why *being the way I was* was good. How it did have benefits. How other people weren't always right about what would be good for me. How I wasn't a failure necessarily, but I had strenghts to compensate for those weaknesses I constantly got called on. And how I was too scared to use them to do so, afraid that I would suck at that too. That's where this forum came in handy. You get to see how different personalities (which you have a sort of rough draft of through MBTI, a structure to grab on to and work from) interact with each other, how they react to one another, what their motivations are, what mine are. And then it dawned on me that they didn't know everything or weren't always right and I was always wrong ( I know, right?). It was *just* their way of being. And mine wasn't flawed, it was equally valid. That realization, however stupid it may sound, took me till last year to fully grasp. Before, I knew it..I just didn't *feel* it.


    Last, I started to gain new insight into how people work, what their motivations are and how that could benefit me and how it could make me happy, change my point of view, in other words, further my personal growth in a way that Fi did approve of.

    I'm pretty sure, much of this applies/will apply to your friend to some extent, at least, that's how it sounds from what you've said here.

    Tell her from me that she needs to do this, and take the time to work on herself. Right now, she probably doesn't feel like she's worth it, and she'd be wasting precious time on something that seems very selfish and silly (and fluffy), something she's been taught to be very afraid of. If she does though, I'm betting she'll feel a 1000 times better and everyone, not just she, will benefit from having her find some peace.
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  7. #157
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Isn't this the "What do INFPs think of what other types think of INFP's" thread?
    That should be the name of the thread into which all these INFP explanation/objection posts get split. The problem with that of course being that mods would have to keep shifting every other post there for the duration of this thread. Realistically if they want a thread about INFPs with no INFP interjections they're going to have to start them in the NT private forum. That would be awesome, btw.

  8. #158
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Can't speak for other INFPs, but in my case, I overanalyze a lot and have whole scenarios worked out in my head, so any feedback I receive would probably match one of them. And if the feedback matches one of the gloomy paths then well; it'll just trigger a whole avalanche of negative emotions within me.

    I work as a researcher and writing research papers for journals or conferences are always a nightmare for me, because I'll go through every single sentence multiple times. I'll be putting myself in the reviewers' shoes and thinking what they would think about my ideas. And any 'negative' feedback would be perceived automatically as a personal attack. Of course I know that they are just being helpful by pointing out how my paper can be improved, but that still doesn't stop me from reacting to it negatively at first glance. It would be like telling me to totally numb my senses. I try my best to control it of course but the Fi-Ne combo can really be a very hard beast to tame.
    Oh, interesting about the reasearch. My question with this is that there seems to be always more things to consider or discuss. Why interact with people at all if you can perfectly capture every scenario in your head? This sounds similar to the NT complaining that everthing is mechanical in our bodies so there is no reason to even try because nothing is "real."

    Also, isn't it possible that one of the "gloomy paths" could change or be tweaked with input?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Salt..what you've said about her sounds *incredibly* familiar. So..I could be projecting. However, what did it for me was...well frankly..coming here. My guess is she's been told her entire life that she was never good enough. When she did something, it was either not good enough or barely tolerable. For a person who's idealistic and perfectionistic at heart..that's devastating.
    Yeah, I agree. I feel free to accept me for who I am now. I'm not some weirdo with a messy room who obesses over things and talks about them too much. I'm an ENFP.

  9. #159
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Realistically if they want a thread about INFPs with no INFP interjections they're going to have to start them in the NT private forum. That would be awesome, btw.
    Why NTs? People put too much stock into NT opinions as it is. NTs also have a tendency to focus on the negative, when as I pointed out earlier, this thread asked for an overall impression, specifically what our potential is, not just criticism.
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  10. #160
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Why NTs? People put too much stock into NT opinions as it is. NTs also have a tendency to focus on the negative, when as I pointed out earlier, this thread asked for an overall impression, specifically what our potential is, not just criticism.
    I think it would provide an interesting contrast. NT's approach the world differently from NF's; thus wouldn't be as slanted/biased towards NF approaches. NF's getting feedback from other NF's will in general tend to be more warm and fuzzy, and biased; NF's getting feedback from NT's, SP's, and SJ's would be that much more interesting and perhaps more objective. After all, we are talking about perceptions of a type; doesn't mean the perceptions are 'accurate' in all ways, and doesn't mean the NT's/SP's/SJ's are really gonna peg the correct motivation for said behavior or anything - it's just how said behavior is perceived.

    Just as SP's would get a different perception/feedback/slant from non-SP's, just as SJ's would get different feedback from non-SJ's than from fellow SJ's, etc.
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