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View Poll Results: Are male INFJ's really that uncommon?

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  1. #211
    Phantonym
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    There is a whole lot more to love than MBTI!
    Definitely!

  2. #212
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    as far as disliking Fi from an enfp, no. it causes ripples not bc we dislike or don't understand it. when the light's shining on us, we can't get enough. it's like celestial or something. we transform it into something, refract it like a prism, it's intense and it makes us light up like a supernova. we feel divinized.

    we don't like Fi in that it ignores convention, externality, representation, contextualization, and narration. the external tools we use to weigh and value the significance of something, focusing on its externalized articulated "expressed" (<-- in our Fe using eyes) character, don't grasp at times the nature of what it means to create and rely on meaning the way we do, that it's not the only way or better than others. since we don't produce it the same way, since it is of a different quality, more of a compassionate awareness that grows and gives us a well of loving feelings to go to, via our Ni perceptions, etc, rather than a series of internally organized feeling-tones based on our subjective experiences and their attached internal resonances whenever we dig them up, like a big activation network of feeling that is primed and ready to collect more, gather more, accumulate more, magnetic like gravity.

    when we get better, we realize that Fi making itself, growing, etc, is an unqualified good thing for the world. yes different values are of differing value, but the process of turning experience into physical emotional weight, substance, etc, is necessary and beautiful for life, even when the ideas behind and attached to some articulations are fuckin stupid. but such is true of all ideas. including the notion that Fi is only "trustworthy" when it is directly placed on us, like a spotlight. love and measuring love and prioritizing love is a complicated business that none of us can do with total purity, authenticity, intensity, and confidence.

    Fe and Fi dislike each other when they do not see/feel their own inherent weaknesses in a way that they can address them and grow from them. antithesis and the process of using difference to synthesize something into a higher unity than before. growing a la the basic outline in lenore thomsons book, etc. we are both dominant perceivers, remember, we need different ways of balancing them and creating an extroverted/introverted balance between bending and rigidity, yin yang, blah blah blah.

    also, at times we dislike Fe in others. it creates pleasant and harmonious emotional environments, when healthy is attentive and aware of needs, of their expression and articulation, etc. but it can feel very distant and artificial when it is not resonating with your deeper attachments and beliefs (even for other Fe types- the thom yorke line, "scared- that there's nothing underneath"). the Fi fact, not of what they say half the time but what occassionally slips thru (especially for tertiary Fi), when you can see their deepest held most cherished feeling-beliefs, desires, dreams, etc. an unconscious gesture. can't lie about that shit, whereas Fe half the time feels like something to disarm someone, why i dislike and am so wary of estp types, why i was so introverted for so long ignoring the world of extroversion, objectivity, compromise, and inescapable phoniness (how i felt about my own Fe as well). but eventually you have to decide if you want to grow up or stay stuck in the mud forever.

    i also don't think people realize how different infj 5 types can be from 9s, 1s, or the classic 4s. not all infj types are neurotic (well, except for 5s). the unhealthy ones often are, who don't feel like they are getting enough positive feedback, enough momentum to get off teh ground, enough good feeling and confidence to take on their situation and balance out their introverted perception and their extroverted judgment (the world's (inherent?- probably not) values as they have come to be for whatever reasons (and that they're here in this form so fucking deal with it)). but the idea that the motivations behind the enneagram type, 5w4 for me, observer with greed and miserliness, desire to be all-knowing all competent all-prepared, and the 4 individualist searching for identity, for self-understanding, for self- and world-recognition, to be known, seen, to express what lies dormant inside and feels unseen and ignored by others, to be loved apart from rather than WITH others, etc, make us soooo money-hungry in the love-as-currency sense. read an intj like nietzsche 5w4 and in this weird way to me the Te-Fi vs Fe-Ti feels more like a stylistic difference to me than anything concrete, anything that speaks deeply about the Self as such, yada yada yada

  3. #213
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    also more relevantly i think it has been rather clear the range of possibilities in a successful infj romantic pairing. gender plays a big deal in creating expectations for the other partner, but those can be worked through and evolve intelligently in most N type pairings. when we see where you're going with it, we can catch on, locate it, see how it makes sense and what kind of adaptation, response, and rolling with the punches has created for you as a person, why it works, why it's interesting, lovable, adorable, etc.

    the introvert possibilities that work well are intj, infp, and intp. Fi feels great, i've had more experience with this and probably found it naturally more recognizable bc of infp mom. but Fi dom when you share values, when you dig her values, is fucking fantastic. in teh back of my head i still have this image of what it means to live and how art/religion support that. i've known a couple of infp girls who GOT this more than anyone else i've known. if not WHO i am and what i am made up of, it is a complete and total transparency of what i want, believe in, am creating, etc. it is a way of viewing the significance and beauty of human life that is very profound and intensely moving (its primary purpose). when your values line up or the infp is especially brilliant and talented, art/inspiration happens. it's a religious devotion that you share, a lens you see each other with, that connects you, etc.

    intps are very intelligent and we value the ways in which they are built to evolve. ideas are something powerful, and our main currency/language that makes up the substance of our lives. just ours are in scatted splotches of technicolor w/ 3d glasses. their precision is great, they are logical, deeply principled, and understand the value in complexity more than any other type. i imagine it would work better relationship-wise for non-5 infjs. too much neuroses and paranoia and miserliness. lack of Fe at times and self-involvement, self-awareness, makes it tough to relate self-to-self (i think the word people use for "soul" almost means "Self").

    intj works for me very well. helps inspire the self-sufficiency i need. i'm not sure i dig the lenore thomson book yet but for her developing Te for infj types is easier and more productive than using too much Ti before you are ready for it. the need for extraverted judging to balance out introverted perceiving. i can kind of see this. i have to extrovert wiht her more than e types, get out of my comfort zone to attack the problems that confront us. her Te is necessary for fundamental things that i cannot catch with Fe, cannot pin down, cannot focus on with bleary tired eyes. but we just KNOW. the communication is so rich with all other dominant N perceivers, no exception. altho way more than Ne-Ni dom, Ni-Ni dom tends to merge pictures more completely, really become one, etc, more so, which has its plusses and minuses. part of me says if i run out of challenge in life, it's my own damn fault. but other parts do say that ENP could be beneficial to stretch, change, grow. this is all true, but does not really dent the fact that what is present in intj-infj for me, especially in my own situation, is valuable beyond words. i'm glad i know and meet other enps, and you never know what is going to happen, but right now this situation is very deeply cherished/appreciated. the values of the other don't inspire you as deeply as an infp type (bc they are built to synthesize, clean up, and clarify what is out THERE, external, objective, etc- rather than suffered for, dreamt, collected like little tone-poems, etc), but the sense of self-recognition and self-understanding you share is the deepest of all connections i've explored. connection ie communication

    with that said, i need enp types involved in my life at all times. that i now understand that and recognize who can help me and why, who i can be of value and service to as well, who i need to meet up with to do the kind of shit i need to do, is GREAT at very liberating

    and this is just plum crazy at this point, but i think the most important division is N vs S. it's the big one that matters the most. after that i find the most important distinction regarding relationships, and this is the crazy part, is the right/left-brain distinction in thomson. the p or the j. F or T are open-ended to me bc the world populates itself wiht meaning in a myriad of ways that NEED to be stretched, confused, confounded. they serve different purposes. but the p or j right/left is so fundamental to creativity and perceptual tools/attention/awareness/cognitive processing that understanding the differences help put the right people in place for the right processes. and build something, use modularity intelligently, to get shit down and be ever so smart.

  4. #214
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    ...with that said, i need enp types involved in my life at all times. that i now understand that and recognize who can help me and why, who i can be of value and service to as well...

    I am very glad you know and value this^.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  5. #215
    Senior Member scortia's Avatar
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    As an INFJ, I don't think I'd be attracted to anyone who isn't either an NF or an NT. NTs are tricky for me, because if they are bluntly rude about some aspect of ethics I feel really strongly about, I shut down towards them.

    I guess a unique Sensing type would be a possibly. Frankly I don't know, I'm in my mid-twenties and I've never had a steady boyfriend... I get bored or agitated with anyone within two dates.

  6. #216
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scortia View Post
    As an INFJ, I don't think I'd be attracted to anyone who isn't either an NF or an NT. NTs are tricky for me, because if they are bluntly rude about some aspect of ethics I feel really strongly about, I shut down towards them.

    I guess a unique Sensing type would be a possibly. Frankly I don't know, I'm in my mid-twenties and I've never had a steady boyfriend... I get bored or agitated with anyone within two dates.
    Definitely sound like an INFJ to me.
    Yep - so now that you've decided you are such, change your Type to INFJ below your avatar and represent proudly.

    Yeah - I've gotten agitated with dates pretty quickly too.
    Never had a steady girlfriend either. We might be doomed.

  7. #217
    Senior Member scortia's Avatar
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    I've already resigned myself to a hermit's life. :P I see most romance as something that eats up my precious time anyhow. The concept is beautiful, but, there's so much unnecessary nonsense I don't feel like dealing with.

  8. #218
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    awesome post, state i am in!!

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    if not WHO i am and what i am made up of, it is a complete and total transparency of what i want, believe in, am creating, etc. it is a way of viewing the significance and beauty of human life that is very profound and intensely moving (its primary purpose).when your values line up or the infp is especially brilliant and talented, art/inspiration happens. it's a religious devotion that you share, a lens you see each other with, that connects you, etc.
    one of my very best friends ever is infp, and this i exactly how i perceive our friendship. her intensity about life is poignant for me to witness.....she naturally just works so hard at soulfully understanding life and the people in it, and when she's at her best, this is most reflected in her painting/writing. but she is usually reeling from some drama in her life, distant past, past, or present, that i watch her elusive stuggle with a tender heart, wishing i could help her like she helps me (at times) but knowing i really can't.

    i had a brief romantic involvement with an infp and found it to be a too-frenzied, intense relating, fraught with too much drama. and we were always hitting an impasse (and i inadvertantly would hurt feelings) because our communication styles/desires were so different.


    intps are very intelligent and we value the ways in which they are built to evolve. just ours are in scatted splotches of technicolor w/ 3d glasses. their precision is great, they are logical, deeply principled, and understand the value in complexity more than any other type. i imagine it would work better relationship-wise for non-5 infjs. too much neuroses and paranoia and miserliness. lack of Fe at times and self-involvement, self-awareness, makes it tough to relate self-to-self.
    i don't know about romantically relating with an intp. but i really am drawn to the idea of so much philosophizing, as i don't really get enough of that with my iXtj partner.

    ideas are something powerful, and our main currency/language that makes up the substance of our lives.
    something about seeing this in your writing is so validating for me. i guess i NEED my partner to listen and listen and listen actively and discuss and discuss and discuss about ideas, ideals, constructs, paradigms, etc. i don't think i'm getting quite enough of that right now in my life. so i spend a lot of time accepting that i have to live in my own head, which isn't so bad, but i'd prefer to philosophize and dream with my mate more.

    (i think the word people use for "soul" almost means "Self")
    not following here. i think i understand what you're saying here: is it that we are all really searching for ourself in others? or that what we are seeking as humans is the perfect ideal of ourselves in another?

    i feel like soul mate, for me, is an intangible connection that ties one to another in a deep way and comes from the same place where Love and Truth exist. i don't believe it has anything to do with my self, other than my self providing the necessary physical material for another self to gravitate with.

    intj works for me very well. helps inspire the self-sufficiency i need......what is present in intj-infj for me, especially in my own situation, is valuable beyond words.
    i agree here.

    with that said, i need enp types involved in my life at all times. that i now understand that and recognize who can help me and why, who i can be of value and service to as well, who i need to meet up with to do the kind of shit i need to do, is GREAT at very liberating
    can't say i've found this to be true for me. maybe i just don't know enough different enfps. the ones i do know seem very scattered and self-centered--they look at me with blank eyes and won't go very deep with me, although they are my biggest fan and even will put me on a pedestal (seriously!) when i do something with which they are interested, or approve of!

    i can't think of any entps (eStp?--i have a really hard time knowing if others are N or S!! do you?) that i know right now. maybe my father-in-law? and i find him sooooo controlling that while we have this weird affinity for each other, he pushes me away with his desire to move me around like his puppet.

    and this is just plum crazy at this point, but i think the most important division is N vs S. it's the big one that matters the most. after that i find the most important distinction regarding relationships, and this is the crazy part, is the right/left-brain distinction in thomson. the p or the j.
    i agree!!! you know, after really studying mbti and reflecting on it for quite a while now, i have come to believe my soul, my way of being, my infj expression needs N over time to feel fulfilled. my N women friends who have S husbands/partners say they get this need met by other friends and family......which, i can't quite imagine having a relationship lacking such an important foundation, although i do understand the attraction and yin/yan nature of N/S in the short-term.

    the J/P thing would be hard. nothing gets me cranked quite like my hubby's Pness rubbing up against (haha! pun intended) my J at times. (he's iXtxish---i'm figuring this out. his work mode as a programmer is intj. but i'm thinking more and more his 'real' mode is istj, with a lotta P at times).

    i watched my good friends argue good naturedly at a party last night over him (istp?) putting off laying their floor for various reasons for the last few years, and she (isfj? infj?) is very J and is getting sick and tired of living in an unfinished house. i can see this--the J/P dichotomy--is causing quite a rift in their marriage.

    F or T are open-ended to me bc the world populates itself wiht meaning in a myriad of ways that NEED to be stretched, confused, confounded. they serve different purposes. but the p or j right/left is so fundamental to creativity and perceptual tools/attention/awareness/cognitive processing that understanding the differences help put the right people in place for the right processes. and build something, use modularity intelligently, to get shit down and be ever so smart.
    thanks!
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  9. #219
    Senior Member Scarfism's Avatar
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    I tend to be attracted to ENFPs. They are so funny and I am able to have a lot of fun with them. They go along with my silly stuff not because they are stupid or anything but because they understand why it's funny. As well, some of the stuff they do is just so something I wouldn't do that it amuses me. For example, I can't ever imagine ordering something at the drive thru and then driving away without the food. An ENFP friend of mine did that once.

  10. #220
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    I'm not sure which is really the most ideal compliment for the INFJ. I imagine it varies.
    It's often said, ESTP or ENTP are ideal.

    I've yet to have a satisfying relationship with a sensing type.

    ENTPs are undeniably charming in the quirkiest ways.
    They're a little overwhelming for me as a whole, though, and I'm pretty sure I'm far too closed off for them.

    I'll add to that by saying I have a terrible bias [or preference?] toward NTs in general. I feel like they offer a balance. They just make sense. And they make me laugh. Most of my close friends IRL are NTs. They aren't extremely affectionate people, which I'm actually more comfortable with. But they're honest. I can always count on them to be upfront about their ideas and opinions. I'll leave the evasive sugar-coating to the FPs.
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