[ENFP] Hate an ENFP? Tell us why!

[ergophobe]

So many rewards, so little work, in my opinion (biased, a tad).

 

[Lady_X]

So many rewards, so little work, in my opinion (biased, a tad).

totally right??

no one is more tolerant than us.

 

[ergophobe]

Or more fabulous! Most things/relationships worth having involve some work.

 

[Lady_X]

Or more fabulous! Most things/relationships worth having involve some work.

yeah!! and all we really want is the same acceptance we dole out...right? SO...not too much to ask.

 

[substitute]

yeah that's kinda what I meant - that whether you say 'I feel' or give concrete examples, or however you put it, essentially what you're doing is bringing up a problem you have with another person which, obviously, at least initially, you would consider to be at least partly their fault. So I'm just wondering how you could consider it possible that someone could feel hurt by something you've done or said, and yet still somehow raise the issue with you without in any way suggesting any fault on your part.

That's the first part, and secondly, that even if that IS achieved, verbally at least, it's of little consequence if the other person still just interprets you wrongly anyway because of a tendency towards taking things personally and being overly defensive.

I just don't get how you're supposed to say to someone "I'm upset because when X happened you said Y" - giving concrete example there and talking in terms of "I feel", WITHOUT it implicitly being a criticism, and implying blame on the other person's part.

 

[Lady_X]

well obviously it totally depends on the situation...but...if someone says...hey...i know you didn't know and didn't do it on purpose but when such and such happens it makes me feel this...it would help if you did this instead...i know you had no way of knowing that and i'm totally not upset...

removing blame like that...takes away that need to be defensive...i think...obviously sometimes it IS their fault and you should just approach it however you want but...if it's about something they truly did not do on purpose and you just want the behavior changed...take away blame when discussing it.

 

[Moiety]

yeah that's kinda what I meant - that whether you say 'I feel' or give concrete examples, or however you put it, essentially what you're doing is bringing up a problem you have with another person which, obviously, at least initially, you would consider to be at least partly their fault. So I'm just wondering how you could consider it possible that someone could feel hurt by something you've done or said, and yet still somehow raise the issue with you without in any way suggesting any fault on your part.

That's the first part, and secondly, that even if that IS achieved, verbally at least, it's of little consequence if the other person still just interprets you wrongly anyway because of a tendency towards taking things personally and being overly defensive.

I just don't get how you're supposed to say to someone "I'm upset because when X happened you said Y" - giving concrete example there and talking in terms of "I feel", WITHOUT it implicitly being a criticism, and implying blame on the other person's part.

Okay I failed to keep up with this thread and wanted to address a couple of posts (yours, Jenocyde's and Lauren's in particular) but now it's just too much and I'm kinda lazy to read through all of that (oh no! I'm such the ENFP ).

Still, I just urge you to keep an open mind. I mean, I don't know the ENFPs you know but you are painting such a bleak picture...I've admitted to having messed up numerous times and also said I was sorry, and it seems you view ENFPs as the ultimate dismissive type or something...I mean that doesn't even add up when considering the other traits we are supposed to have.

And I'm having a really hard time relating to the people you guys are describing. Any of my friends can approach me and speak their mind about what I just did or have done... I don't go apeshit or something lol



I would like to, again, urge you people to not take MBTI without a grain of salt and specially to be mindful of "cognition does not equate behavior".

 

[substitute]

Well obviously I'm talking about when they behave badly, as everyone is capable of behaving badly sometimes - yes, even ENFx's!!

I'm not saying that all ENFP's or even the ones I know, behave this way all the time or make a habit of it. It's just how I've observed things going when they don't go well. And it's not just me either, there are other people on this thread remarking on just the same kind of behaviour and as jeno said, we don't know each other and haven't conferred and are all around the world, so it's not like we could, all of us, just happen to know ONLY the most dysfunctional ENFP's!

 

[Moiety]

Well obviously I'm talking about when they behave badly, as everyone is capable of behaving badly sometimes - yes, even ENFx's!!

I'm not saying that all ENFP's or even the ones I know, behave this way all the time or make a habit of it. It's just how I've observed things going when they don't go well. And it's not just me either, there are other people on this thread remarking on just the same kind of behaviour and as jeno said, we don't know each other and haven't conferred and are all around the world, so it's not like we could, all of us, just happen to know ONLY the most dysfunctional ENFP's!

Yeah they also say ENFPs are giddy and drama queens. Is that supposed to mean something as far as my person is concerned?

Stereotypes my friend... that's the whole point. And unresolved issues fuel the confirmation bias. You'll never see me say "type X are this or that" unless I'm joking.


Of course, you can use this very post against me and say I'm beeing dismissive in ENFP fashion or some such thing...but that's what I'm saying...there seems to be no escaping the confirmation bias



Like that ENFX comment...lol...what is that supposed to mean man? Is that even supposed to be a common stereotype?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Still, I just urge you to keep an open mind. I mean, I don't know the ENFPs you know but you are painting such a bleak picture...I've admitted to having messed up numerous times and also said I was sorry, and it seems you view ENFPs as the ultimate dismissive type or something...I mean that doesn't even add up when considering the other traits we are supposed to have.

If I had to pick a favorite type as a whole, it would probably be a tie between ENFP and ENTP. My ENFP brother is one of the people I love most in the world. However, there is no denying in my mind that they have tendencies to dismiss criticism in any way they can and they get stuck in their own feelings to the exclusion of others' feelings. I know more than enough ENFPs to see this trend, and you can even witness it in this very thread. Every type has faults. I take the bad with the good.

 

[Moiety]

If I had to pick a favorite type as a whole, it would probably be a tie between ENFP and ENTP. My ENFP brother is one of the people I love most in the world. However, there is no denying in my mind that they have tendencies to dismiss criticism in any way they can and they get stuck in their own feelings to the exclusion of others' feelings. I know more than enough ENFPs to see this trend, and you can even witness it in this very thread. Every type has faults. I take the bad with the good.

I can understand that I guess. Your experience is your own.

Just saying I don't do what you do. I don't think in terms of types. I think it's unhealthy. In my opinion. It's easy to start getting a warped and self-confirmed idea of how other people think/behave.


If I get three different people to say ENTJs are domineering and sadistic bastards, that still doesn't mean they inherently are. One of the best and kindest guys I know is an ENTJ, and I prefer to not assume anything about other ENTJs I know based on personal experience OR MBTI. It's subjective, depends on perspective and predisposition. This is a ENFP hate thread so I'm taking that into consideration, of course. I like knowing how others perceive me.

I might be too P for this whole MBTI thing. I don't like putting people into boxes.


EDITED

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Just saying I don't do what you do. I don't think in terms of types. I think it's unhealthy. In my opinion. It's easy to start getting a warped and self-confirmed idea of how other people think/behave.

I don't go around looking for XXXX type in order to see if they fit into what that type is supposed to be like. Nearly all of the ENFPs I know, I knew before I ever found out about MBTI; I haven't even known about MBTI for a year yet. I'd already noticed this behavior in them. Now I just better understand why.

 

[Moiety]

I don't go around looking for XXXX type in order to see if they fit into what that type is supposed to be like. Nearly all of the ENFPs I know, I knew before I ever found out about MBTI; I haven't even known about MBTI for a year yet. I'd already noticed this behavior in them. Now I just better understand why.

Okay, help me understand what I have in common with them someday then

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Okay, help me understand what I have in common with them someday then

I can tell you right now -- a tendency to dismiss criticism, a sense of entitlement, and an "I am what I am, so deal with it" way of thinking.

 

[Moiety]

I can tell you right now -- a tendency to dismiss criticism, a sense of entitlement, and an "I am what I am, so deal with it" way of thinking.

Hmm, I don't think you go the point of my posts.

If I were to figure you all out like that, I could also say you judge people way too soon, with very little info to back you up. Also you do it while stereotyping them, and can't discern understand what it means to play devil's advocate, that is, not necessarily relating to "the criminal" but still being able to be open minded enough to see the various different reasons for a certain behavior.

But, I just pulled that from my ass though and I don't like to figure you all out just like that. I don't know you. I can't even read your tone or body language or use of sarcasm etc in your posts. They can only tell me so much. And even if they were representative of the way you go about expressing yourself in real life I'd still have to take things like mood and context etc into consideration.


I'm not dismissing criticism because the criticism wasn't directed at me. Don't understand what sense of entitlement actually means so can't comment on that. "I am what I am so deal with it"...I can agree to that somewhat. But I could only see that as a flaw if I was stepping on anyone's toes.Am I?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

If I were to figure you all out like that, I could also say you judge people way too soon, with very little info to back you up.

Ps say that about me. But that is from their perspective. Call me an NJ

Also you do it while stereotyping them, and can't discern understand what it means to play devil's advocate, that is, not necessarily relating to "the criminal" but still being able to be open minded enough to see the various different reasons for a certain behavior.

Oh please. You like to throw around the term "stereotyping" a lot. You might want to check the name of the website you are on.

You must think I've gleaned that perspective only from your posts in this thread. Wrong. And I understand what it means to play devil's advocate. I also know what it means to take an affront on your type as an affront on yourself. We're all guilty of it, to an extent.

Regardless, I still like you and I've learned much from my conversations with you. Don't believe if I point out negative qualities, that is all I can see.

Sytpg

 

[Lady_X]

Hmm, I don't think you go the point of my posts.

If I were to figure you all out like that, I could also say you judge people way too soon, with very little info to back you up. Also you do it while stereotyping them, and can't discern understand what it means to play devil's advocate, that is, not necessarily relating to "the criminal" but still being able to be open minded enough to see the various different reasons for a certain behavior.

But, I just pulled that from my ass though and I don't like to figure you all out just like that. I don't know you. I can't even read your tone or body language or use of sarcasm etc in your posts. They can only tell me so much. And even if they were representative of the way you go about expressing yourself in real life I'd still have to take things like mood and context etc into consideration.


I'm not dismissing criticism because the criticism wasn't directed at me. Don't understand what sense of entitlement actually means so can't comment on that. "I am what I am so deal with it"...I can agree to that somewhat. But I could only see that as a flaw if I was stepping on anyone's toes.Am I?

yeah i'm with sy...i sure as hell am not taking any of these comments personally. i value the different perspective and am just trying to relate it to my own experience and figure out how i might hear certain criticisms and what would work better...since sub was asking. i know that i apologize and admit fault when i need to...what i was trying to say was to take away blame if you know they didn't mean to...so they don't feel the need to be defensive...otherwise if they're wrong straight up tell em...and they should be able to hear you and deal with it. i think i just get defensive when i didn't mean to do whatever it is.

 

[Amargith]

Hmm, I don't think you go the point of my posts.

If I were to figure you all out like that, I could also say you judge people way too soon, with very little info to back you up. Also you do it while stereotyping them, and can't discern understand what it means to play devil's advocate, that is, not necessarily relating to "the criminal" but still being able to be open minded enough to see the various different reasons for a certain behavior.

But, I just pulled that from my ass though and I don't like to figure you all out just like that. I don't know you. I can't even read your tone or body language or use of sarcasm etc in your posts. They can only tell me so much. And even if they were representative of the way you go about expressing yourself in real life I'd still have to take things like mood and context etc into consideration.


I'm not dismissing criticism because the criticism wasn't directed at me. Don't understand what sense of entitlement actually means so can't comment on that. "I am what I am so deal with it"...I can agree to that somewhat. But I could only see that as a flaw if I was stepping on anyone's toes.Am I?

+1000

Ps say that about me. But that is from their perspective. Call me an NJ

And call us an ENFP
It is a trait of ENFPs to accept others for who they are with their flaws, and yes, we do expect the same back. This sometimes means that we might not take criticism very well, or for that matter, that it appears like we dismiss criticism. I think most of us though take criticism onboard more than it shows and consider it carefully. Most of the time though, because we self-reflect a lot (at least I do, dunno about my brothers and sisters here), what you are saying is either not new, or we don't share your point of view, and we have already reflected on it. I personally will actually not be able to hide if you tell me something that I hadn't thought of myself yet. And it will be more than clear that that point I will need time to actually reexamine that part of myself and maybe work in what you've said. This is not an every day occurance however

yeah i'm with sy...i sure as hell am not taking any of these comments personally. i value the different perspective and am just trying to relate it to my own experience and figure out how i might hear certain criticisms and what would work better...since sub was asking. i know that i apologize and admit fault when i need to...what i was trying to say was to take away blame if you know they didn't mean to...so they don't feel the need to be defensive...otherwise if they're wrong straight up tell em...and they should be able to hear you and deal with it. i think i just get defensive when i didn't mean to do whatever it is.

+100

I just feel that if we explain where we come from, we have a better way of understanding each other and bridging the gap. Ironically, that might actually be perceived as being defensive and make things even more complicated. In reality, it's just my frustration at the misunderstanding and my inability to solve it that on occasion is showing

 

[Lauren Ashley]

And call us an ENFP

I did!

 

[Amargith]

I did!

Actually, I'd be interested in hearing your POV, as to why NJs are so quick to make up their mind about people. Coz it's something I don't really dare to do, so it would be intriguing to hear how you guys go about that.