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  1. #961
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Bat Shi Crazy!

  2. #962
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    I've found this sort of misinterpretation/projection to be common with the ENFPs I have known. I have a whole lot of fun with them, and I don't mean to be hypercritical.
    My dad and younger brother are both INTPs, and this kind of conflict arises with us, too. I think what happens is that since you guys use a hard logical value system for the most part, and we use a soft ethics value system for the most part, we read your speech patterns like we would read our own, and assume that you make the connections that you make for the same reasons we would make them, which isn't true, of course. When we scan things, we look for the personal interpretation... so with the cop example, just like Starry brought up, it's rather confusing why you would say that at all - I do pick up a sort of negative implication out of it as well, even though that clearly wasn't intended. In ENFP language, them's fightin' words!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Agreed. Without context, the cop becomes an obvious comparison to her husband. At the very least offensive, this seems the same as saying "I don't have anything to do with people like your husband."
    Yeah. The INTPs I know usually happen to be fairly (understatement) proud of their intelligence, too, so that's usually part of the context. Like oh, I was in debate club, and my people don't want to be cops...

    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    The other person in the conversation actually did say something overtly negative about police officers, and the ENFP in question didn't bat an eyelash at him. It was my statement to which she took offense. When I confronted her with this, she replied that my opinion was more important to her.
    I wasn't there of course, so I don't really know, but if you were a close friend of someone important to me, I would hold you to a higher standard too - and of course, depends on what kind of negative thing was said. Sometimes blunt truth doesn't really bother ENFPs - but it all depends on how it's worded.

    I think that's why we often seem to get along with TJs more easily than TPs, because the way TJs word blunt things is usually very clearly impersonal, but TPs can word things in a way that strikes me as personally offensive, even though they don't usually seem to mean it to be. FPs and TJs are more protective/careful of the individual's inner values and emotions, and less likely to attack there, because to us (at least to FPs), the intrapersonal individual is a very sensitive and almost sacred thing. Like one day my INTP dad said to me, "you're an embarrassment" - which I guess to him was pretty factual, but really struck me hard, because I interpreted it to mean that my whole being was negative and he didn't see any good side in my existence, and with him being my father, that statement really hurt to the core. I broke down and cried; he said I was too sensitive and walked away, as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juice
    Chance of being Bat Shi Crazy! correlates with extremes in intelligence

  3. #963
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    My dad and younger brother are both INTPs, and this kind of conflict arises with us, too. I think what happens is that since you guys use a hard logical value system for the most part, and we use a soft ethics value system for the most part, we read your speech patterns like we would read our own, and assume that you make the connections that you make for the same reasons we would make them, which isn't true, of course. When we scan things, we look for the personal interpretation... so with the cop example, just like Starry brought up, it's rather confusing why you would say that at all - I do pick up a sort of negative implication out of it as well, even though that clearly wasn't intended. In ENFP language, them's fightin' words!
    I think there may also INTP naivete at play here. I forget that people have to be told that I think they are awesome. I wouldn't hang out with non awesome people, so it is truly perplexing to me when my ENFP friends think I am being mean or judgmental. I am close to both her and her husband, so it's baffling to me that she would read those motivations into what I said based on one sentence rather than the actions I've displayed through years of friendship with the both of them. I also find it interesting that every ENFP who has replied has interpreted my statement negatively, when there was truly zero malice or intent behind it.



    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeah. The INTPs I know usually happen to be fairly (understatement) proud of their intelligence, too, so that's usually part of the context. Like oh, I was in debate club, and my people don't want to be cops...
    Sure, I'm proud of my intelligence. I am, after all, amazingly bright. I won't lie. I can be arrogant, but that's not a quality I tend to direct at my friends. I'm not friends with stupid people, so the arrogance becomes unneccesary. I wasn't being arrogant in this particular case.


    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think that's why we often seem to get along with TJs more easily than TPs, because the way TJs word blunt things is usually very clearly impersonal, but TPs can word things in a way that strikes me as personally offensive, even though they don't usually seem to mean it to be. FPs and TJs are more protective/careful of the individual's inner values and emotions, and less likely to attack there, because to us (at least to FPs), the intrapersonal individual is a very sensitive and almost sacred thing. Like one day my INTP dad said to me, "you're an embarrassment" - which I guess to him was pretty factual, but really struck me hard, because I interpreted it to mean that my whole being was negative and he didn't see any good side in my existence, and with him being my father, that statement really hurt to the core. I broke down and cried; he said I was too sensitive and walked away, as usual. ...
    I have also noticed that ENFPs don't like it when you say they're too sensitive, lol. The comment your father made was a bit harsh, and your reaction to that is at least understandable to me. I have had communication breakdowns with other ENFPs, though. One friend knows I hate the telephone, and she will call me and start rambling. She gets upset when I ask her to get to the point. I think it's interpreted as "I don't want to talk to you" rather than "I really resent the idea of the telephone." Unfortunately, by the time I realize where the communication breakdown has occurred, it is often too late to fix. And yeah, I will definitely cop to walking away or withdrawing when ENFPs start crying, either because I think they are trying to manipulate me emotionally or because I simply don't know what to do. At least if I walk away, I can't make it worse by sticking my foot in my mouth again.

    I hope I did that whole quote thing right and this post doesn't look jacked up.

  4. #964
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    And yeah, I will definitely cop to walking away or withdrawing when ENFPs start crying, either because I think they are trying to manipulate me emotionally or because I simply don't know what to do.
    the only time i ever pretended to cry i burst out laughing.

    At least if I walk away, I can't make it worse by sticking my foot in my mouth again.
    worse. the walking away looks like rejection from an ENFP's standpoint.


    p.s. this thread is odd. it's like going to the circus and kicking the clown in the groin. cos when you were 7 you saw "IT"
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  5. #965
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    worse. the walking away looks like rejection from an ENFP's standpoint.
    I know from experience that if I stay, I will manage to somehow say the exact wrong thing. From the ENFP's standpoint, it may be worse. From my standpoint, I know just how bad it *can* get if I do stay. I always come back later to work it out when the crying part is done.

  6. #966
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    I know from experience that if I stay, I will manage to somehow say the exact wrong thing. From the ENFP's standpoint, it may be worse. From my standpoint, I know just how bad it *can* get if I do stay. I always come back later to work it out when the crying part is done.
    how do you know you're saying the wrong thing?

    pro tip: it's always nice if someone says they're coming back later...
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  7. #967
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    how do you know you're saying the wrong thing?

    pro tip: it's always nice if someone says they're coming back later...
    It's usually pretty obvious. The emotional reaction is usually completely unexpected to me. I need time to withdraw and process what has happened and how to approach the situation. If I am hit upside the head with a 2x4 of emotion, I just don't know the right way to respond without thinking about it. If I am not given that time, I can become defensive. And of course I'll come back for a friend. There is my INTP naïveté again. I am stubbornly loyal to my friends. I assume they know that.

  8. #968
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post

    LMAO.


    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    Because another person in the conversation spoke about a future cop in a club he was in. The conversation drifted to clubs in general. My only reason for saying that was to clarify that we were no longer on the subject of cops; we had moved on to clubs.

    ENFPs are sensitive to *slights* of any kind…especially if they are directed towards another individual or group. I mean, the fastest way to get an ENFP to go from ‘wow…look at that beautiful rainbow’…to *fangs* and WTFFFFFF????? (and we can turn-sour fast) is to slight someone.

    Likewise, everything is connected. In a big pattern of information. I mean…perhaps you are/were completely innocent and ignorant of ‘the seemingly commonly held opinion’ that ‘all cops are working-class, donut-eating, idiot-assholes’ (Juice's illustration)…and ‘all members of the debate club go on to become part of the 1%’ < --- but I’m going to go out on a limb here and say she probably didn’t think you were. Like I stated earlier…she will be naturally inclined to assign a reason to why you said what you said (there are no accidents)…and that reason will be based-off of the patterns she sees around her…and the pattern of behavior she has come to expect from you. And by the latter I mean…if anything you have ever said before (lol)…hints at some sort of ‘intellectual superiority’…it will have an accumulation effect…and she will react to that (as well).

    And again…yes. You may be totally innocent here…and like you said merely awkward in your communication. But she can believe all of this without you believing it…if that is what the ‘pattern’ is telling her. Damn ENFPs. Hate em.

  9. #969
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    worse. the walking away looks like rejection from an ENFP's standpoint.
    So true!

  10. #970
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    I dont hate any ENFPs. My bestie is one but I do have one major complaint. She will volunteer her negative opinion of my friends or someone Im dating. Its more superficial complaints than anything substantial but I hate that. Like, when did I ask your opinion?

    Also, there's plenty of her friends I dont care for but I wouldnt say that. Its just rude. Maybe its an Fi thing.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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