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  1. #791
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    Yeah, the purpose of this thread, and any other type-based thread, should be for ENFPs to receive how they come across to others, and for them and those "others" to come to a common understanding of what both parties need. It's a good way for us all to understand people even better.

    So let's try to do that!

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    ...and you asked for examples, so I gave them.
    Many of these do describe NFs that I know.

    I know that I seek external validation; this also comes with Enneagram 3. I like being told that I've done a good job or that I'm appreciated. I like to know that I'm making progress. It's been difficult for me to find validation internally, but I've been learning how to do so.

    My ExFJ sister absolutely prods for emotional reactions from her ENTP husband in certain given situations. I'm not sure if it's to validate that she would feel that same way or if she's looking for an excuse to vent, but it doesn't seem healthy. If he doesn't have an emotional reaction, then he doesn't have one. It's pretty simple!

    Unfortunately, for many, if you don't match their emotional intensity when something occurs, they don't think that you actually care or that you don't empathize with or understand them. NFs care about connecting with others to a great degree, and so they can be hurt if they don't feel that you are connecting with them. Many don't realize that communication is a two-way street--that those they communicate with "should" be more sensitive and understanding, but also that they "should" learn to watch for their own mental filters that may be distorting the message into something personal.

    My friend's car broke down and he was absolutely hysterical. Instead of outright telling him that it wasn't a big deal and to just call a towing company, I first met him where he was by asking if he was alright and empathizing wiht his emotions, then gave him solutions. Then I reassured him that everything would be alright. It's what he needed to get him through.

    My girlfriend feels anxiety in one of her classes. I've struggled with that same mindset many times in the past, but I don't any longer. Instead of just telling her that her one class grade isn't going to matter in the long run and treating it as if it weren't a problem for her--that she "shouldn't" feel anxiety about her class--I help her study, I share how I used to feel about my own classes, and I reassured her that, later on, it was a mindset that I was able to get over. If her class is important to her, and if she's important to me, then that class is just as important to me as it is to her.

  2. #792
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    hmmm... I wonder how many people I've managed to confuse the hell out of? I think I had an ENFJ masquerade back then. Heh heh, I can be typed as an NF until Amar joins the party
    I have no problem with properly reformed ENFPs, such as Greed, but you're just abusing the system dude

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I did:
    I agree with Greed, that we should address these examples and he did a fine job to it. I'd like to add that it is indeed hard to sometimes see when someone is just joking about and when not. Just like it is sometimes hard to see for others when we're actually bantering as opposed to really flirting. I still have not found a way to discern it and I rather check (and I guess that ruins the joke ) than let it go on to be a conflict
    Still trying to figure out a solution for this one.

    It also took me years to realize that the 'emotional silence' you get from some people when asking them something is in fact..well, there. I always figured it meant I was missing something, some clue, that I wasn't properly in tune with the person, so I asked, and tried to 'reestablish' the connection, getting a big emotional blowout as a result. It's one of those things that's sooo natural to us that it doesn't occur to us that others might not have that, at least that's how I experienced it. And sadly, I have no clue as to how you can inform those that haven't figured this out yet. Try explaining that for you it works differently, that you think about it logically, I guess.

    As for the reassuring text-msgs afterwards, I too have done that, when I was younger. It's important for an ENFP to end a conversation on a high note. The reason is coz the thing you remember best is the last thing said. And I dunno about other ENFPs but my memory is triggered by emotions. The bigger the emotion that was present at that point, the stronger the memory. If I remember that you made me feel lousy last time I talked to you, I will dread meeting up with you later. Hence I try to avoid that feeling or fix it when it occurs. Coz it might cost me a good friend if I leave things the way things are. Nowadays, also thanks to MBTI, I tend to be able to gauge what my position with the other person is (if I know them well enough that is), and what conflict between us means. If it does happen, and I know that that person doesn't have a problem with me or having conflict (not with NFs for instance!), I don't have the need to verify afterwards that we're ok.

    From what I can see, most of the problems you have with ENFPs stems from the fact that they haven't figured out yet in what way you (and other people) respond differently to the world than them. It's also that doesn't occur to them that certain small details can be so different and therefore give such different views.

    For instance: I remember being utterly surprised when my SO told me that he doesn't know why he loves someone. It's not something he analyzes, it's just there. It perplexed me, as he analyzes everything else and I personally find it natural that you wonder why this person has you so mesmerized. And when I asked him this question, I'd been dating him for several years already, it's not like it was obvious he felt this way.
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  3. #793
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    My friend's car broke down and he was absolutely hysterical. Instead of outright telling him that it wasn't a big deal and to just call a towing company, I first met him where he was by asking if he was alright and empathizing wiht his emotions, then gave him solutions. Then I reassured him that everything would be alright. It's what he needed to get him through.

    My girlfriend feels anxiety in one of her classes. I've struggled with that same mindset many times in the past, but I don't any longer. Instead of just telling her that her one class grade isn't going to matter in the long run and treating it as if it weren't a problem for her--that she "shouldn't" feel anxiety about her class--I help her study, I share how I used to feel about my own classes, and I reassured her that, later on, it was a mindset that I was able to get over. If her class is important to her, and if she's important to me, then that class is just as important to me as it is to her.
    These are very good examples. I try very hard to meet people where they are, but sometimes, I confess that I am impatient. I don't know if this is a fault of mine or not because I feel impatience at people who I perceive to be drama queens, especially when I am busy with something I deem more important. But overall, this approach makes great sense and I will try harder to incorporate it.

    (unless I am wrapped up in something more important. lol. )

  4. #794
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I have no problem with properly reformed ENFPs, such as Greed, but you're just abusing the system dude
    You're accusing an ENTJ of abusing a system? Sorry for being so immoral
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  5. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    You're accusing an ENTJ of abusing a system? Sorry for being so immoral
    I'm also accusing him of lying now. No matter, request denied
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  6. #796
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Jeno, no I don't think you're upset, but indeed I wanted to make sure there were't any misunderstandings. I doubt anyone was upset really
    1000 INFJinity points.

  7. #797
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post
    1000 INFJinity points.
    The funny part is that the constant reassurance is what causes the conflict for me.

    EDIT: and what the hell are INFJinity points? Whatever they are, I want them! *snatches the INFJinity points and runs*

  8. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I'm also accusing him of lying now. No matter, request denied
    You can't deny his request, he already traveled back in time and took it back. He concedes that he may lie, but lying is not in his nature.
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  9. #799
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    The funny part is that the constant reassurance is what causes the conflict for me.

    EDIT: and what the hell are INFJinity points? Whatever they are, I want them! *snatches the INFJinity points and runs*

    Fine, I'll bite my tongue next time and watch the trainwreck happen

    And +1 on the points..though, get your own, I wanna keep mine

    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    You can't deny his request, he already traveled back in time and took it back. He concedes that he may lie, but lying is not in his nature.
    Pff sure, but I will not validate you as an ENFP, nor are liars allowed in the ENFP-ground (my personal playgarden), and my Fi has just booted you off the island that is my heart, as I do not waste time on liars :steam:
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  10. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    These are very good examples. I try very hard to meet people where they are, but sometimes, I confess that I am impatient. I don't know if this is a fault of mine or not because I feel impatience at people who I perceive to be drama queens, especially when I am busy with something I deem more important. But overall, this approach makes great sense and I will try harder to incorporate it.

    (unless I am wrapped up in something more important. lol. )
    Yeah, I feel you. It can be difficult.

    To that end, some more examples:

    Same friend. ENFJ. He's got a codependent streak that he's .. actually proud of. We're involved in a particular professional development and leadership organization, and we just got involved in the same small group that split off of it. I've been telling him that he has to do these sorts of things for himself.

    So just before one of the small group meetings, he texts me asking if we were going. I shot one back saying that I was going, but that him going shouldn't be dependent on me going. He then proceeds to imply that I'm mean. I knew I'd elicit this sort of reaction from him, but I think my frustration with his text prohibited me from phrasing my statement more carefully.

    So.. I shot another one back along the lines of "Sorry.. hard to get the true meaning across in text message. What I mean is that [our small group leader] sees a lot of potential in you and that I'd hate to see any choices I make prohibit you from acting on that potential." That's really what I wanted to get across the first time, but I didn't exactly phrase it that way. Much better.

    But, damage control.

    Also playing to this codependent streak of his for his own benefit, I've been trying for "mutual accountability"--that we both hold the other accountable to go--as a means to actually get him to go to these meetings.

    But, really, I know that I don't need to be held accountable by him in order for me to go. But he feels that he's helping me, which is what he loves to do. It also spurs him into action, too.

    Is that manipulation? I'm not entirely sure. But it's the truth filtered by the way he thinks. The underlying truthful meaning will sink in eventually, with enough introspection on his part.


    Another example. Same girlfriend (well, one would hope ). INFP. She's driving us to the gym, and she takes a route that's slightly longer than the one I'd normally take. I wanted to share this with her, but, in my mind, I was just thinking.. "what's the best way to phrase this so that she doesn't feel hurt?"

    I forgot what I actually said. It wasn't the straight-up truth in a direct form, but I suppose it wasn't "sugarcoated" the way that it should have been, either.

    She wasn't exactly hurt, but I could tell that she took it at least a bit personally. I still haven't arrived at a solution to the question that was formed in my mind.

    So, yeah. At times, even I feel the frustration of feeling like I can't just "tell it like it is."

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Pff sure, but I will not validate you as an ENFP, nor are liars allowed in the ENFP-ground (my personal playgarden), and my Fi has just booted you off the island that is my heart, as I do not waste time on liars :steam:
    Well, I'm going to claim him as my ENFP understudy. We'll start our own playground and leave you out of it. How does that make you feel?

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