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  1. #631
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Actually, this is a sore point for me. I don't understand why ENFPs get slammed for "trying to make everything better" and "glossing over friction" and then when ENTPs do it they score brownie points for being 'team players' and 'suprisingly gracious'.
    Because, in the examples I've mentioned and many others, the ENFPs are simply sweeping the issue under the rug without addressing it. The ENTP's Ti breaks down the issue and their Fe helps them to do it in a way that others can appreciate.

    I think it's because there are different expectations and even stereotypes associated with being an NT or an NF.
    True on here. But I've witnessed this dynamic with ENxPs offline in situations where no one has any idea what MBTI is.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    That's different!
    Dramatic is dramatic!

  2. #632
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    The ENTPs I know sure seem dramatic when they are debating. This ENTP I know starts waving his arms in the air and gets this crazy look in his eyes whenever he debates philosophy.
    That's just different kind of dramatic

    Uh-oh - flailing arms alert! Move delicate objects out of the way.

  3. #633
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    The irony is, ENFPs in general probably "care" a lot more about the actual issues at hand causing the friction. Fi doms can't act light and cheery and fun when a situation is really hitting our values - to do so would be fake.

    Actually, this is a sore point for me. I don't understand why ENFPs get slammed for "trying to make everything better" and "glossing over friction" and then when ENTPs do it they score brownie points for being 'team players' and 'suprisingly gracious'.
    I think you'd be surprised how much an ENTP can care about something whilst still being willing to let it go for now. Perhaps it's the pragmatism of the NT that tells me it's absolutely pointless trying to discuss it and assesses that it will achieve nothing, and so I'm able to override the emotional feeling, the frustration or whatever, for the sake of logical expediency. I think that perhaps the ENFP's idealism is what's the real block to them being able to do this, rather than to say that the reason the ENTP can is that they just don't really care.

    There are times when you shouldn't move past things, when people shouldn't necessarily feel hunky-dory about things - that's what Fi is about. I guess it's funny that I hear criticism that ENFPs want to always gloss over conflict and then I hear the criticism that ENFPs want to say within conflict.
    I'm not sure if there's a typo in there somewhere, cos that end part doesn't seem to really scan...? Do you mean "...that ENTPs want to stay within conflict"?

    My experience with my brother is that it's quite often because I really do care about something and it is important to me, I'm the one insisting that this isn't something that should be glossed over or moved past without further examination, but the minute he hears the emphasis in my voice he's interpreting it as aggression and just switching off, that's when the whole frustration levels in me hit the roof, because he stops listening at all to anything I'm saying, instead focusing on the strength of feeling/frustration that's coming out in my tone of voice and trying to get me to drop it because it feels like conflict to him. I see it as rather ironic that he's the one causing it to seem like conflict, because all I wanted was a calm discussion and he's said that he likes to see that someone really cares about something - and yet here we are, there's emphasis in my voice that's because I care, and that's his signal to stop listening and try to shut me up! And it's him refusing to listen that gets me actually angry and telling him to ffs listen, cos all I want to do is say what I've got to say and for him to listen and understand. And it's doubly ironic because when I don't want to open up he's insisting that I should, and here I am, opening up, really caring, about something really important to me, and he's trying to get me to shut up and drop it because it all feels a bit too much like conflict to him! :steam:

    When it comes to a group situation, where I can sense through Ne-Fe that although this or that issue is important and needs to be discussed, insisting on doing it NOW will not achieve the affect that my dear little idealist wants it to achieve and will, in fact, cause a lot of resentment and nobody will really take on the issues at hand. That's why I'd advocate moving on, and not because I simply don't give a shit.

    I think that's what seems to me the difference with the ENxP's - I can see the same shit you do and I can have feelings about it too, but somehow I'm able to override my own feelings about it for the sake of expediency, efficacy and group dynamics, whereas you're oblivious to those things and just stuck in the "but this is how I FEEL" situation, so you end up futilely ranting to an unsympathetic and unlistening audience at an inappropriate time, achieving nothing.

    I don't mean personally you, just sorta generally you, as in 'one' lol
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  4. #634
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Because, in the examples I've mentioned and many others, the ENFPs are simply sweeping the issue under the rug without addressing it. The ENTP's Ti breaks down the issue and their Fe helps them to do it in a way that others can appreciate.
    I don't know if it's a typical flaw with most NF's, but this ENFP won't sweep a single thing under a rug and leave it. It makes me crazy. I'd rather deal with a problem NOW.

    But that may not be most ENFP's ?

  5. #635
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I don't know if it's a typical flaw with most NF's, but this ENFP won't sweep a single thing under a rug and leave it. It makes me crazy. I'd rather deal with a problem NOW.

    But that may not be most ENFP's ?
    Oh, now you are awesome. None of what I have mentioned applies to you, as far as I can tell

    Now will you marry me or not, dammit?!

  6. #636
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I don't know if it's a typical flaw with most NF's, but this ENFP won't sweep a single thing under a rug and leave it. It makes me crazy. I'd rather deal with a problem NOW.
    Me 2 (or 66, as the case may be).

  7. #637
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    I agree with Jaye. It's bizarre but a lot of the criticisms against ENFPs in this thread are experiences I have had personally with INFPs. I think this might be due to varying levels of Fi use. I know I am more comfortable using Te in extroverted scenarios than Fi.

  8. #638
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Oh, now you are awesome. None of what I have mentioned applies to you, as far as I can tell

    Now will you marry me or not, dammit?!
    As an ENFP who believes in dealing with situations immediately, I say LET'S GET HITCHED!

  9. #639
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    fi is not just about being emotional though. it's about being individualistic too. believing in personal rights so it may make us stand firm and protect that right against those who would choose to take it from us.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison
    Likes Alassea liked this post

  10. #640
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I think you'd be surprised how much an ENTP can care about something whilst still being willing to let it go for now. Perhaps it's the pragmatism of the NT that tells me it's absolutely pointless trying to discuss it and assesses that it will achieve nothing, and so I'm able to override the emotional feeling, the frustration or whatever, for the sake of logical expediency. I think that perhaps the ENFP's idealism is what's the real block to them being able to do this, rather than to say that the reason the ENTP can is that they just don't really care.



    I'm not sure if there's a typo in there somewhere, cos that end part doesn't seem to really scan...? Do you mean "...that ENTPs want to stay within conflict"?

    My experience with my brother is that it's quite often because I really do care about something and it is important to me, I'm the one insisting that this isn't something that should be glossed over or moved past without further examination, but the minute he hears the emphasis in my voice he's interpreting it as aggression and just switching off, that's when the whole frustration levels in me hit the roof, because he stops listening at all to anything I'm saying, instead focusing on the strength of feeling/frustration that's coming out in my tone of voice and trying to get me to drop it because it feels like conflict to him. I see it as rather ironic that he's the one causing it to seem like conflict, because all I wanted was a calm discussion and he's said that he likes to see that someone really cares about something - and yet here we are, there's emphasis in my voice that's because I care, and that's his signal to stop listening and try to shut me up! And it's him refusing to listen that gets me actually angry and telling him to ffs listen, cos all I want to do is say what I've got to say and for him to listen and understand. And it's doubly ironic because when I don't want to open up he's insisting that I should, and here I am, opening up, really caring, about something really important to me, and he's trying to get me to shut up and drop it because it all feels a bit too much like conflict to him! :steam:

    When it comes to a group situation, where I can sense through Ne-Fe that although this or that issue is important and needs to be discussed, insisting on doing it NOW will not achieve the affect that my dear little idealist wants it to achieve and will, in fact, cause a lot of resentment and nobody will really take on the issues at hand. That's why I'd advocate moving on, and not because I simply don't give a shit.

    I think that's what seems to me the difference with the ENxP's - I can see the same shit you do and I can have feelings about it too, but somehow I'm able to override my own feelings about it for the sake of expediency, efficacy and group dynamics, whereas you're oblivious to those things and just stuck in the "but this is how I FEEL" situation, so you end up futilely ranting to an unsympathetic and unlistening audience at an inappropriate time, achieving nothing.

    I don't mean personally you, just sorta generally you, as in 'one' lol
    Your tone is just asking for trouble, so I have to be careful about which part I quote.



    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I can see the same shit you do and I can have feelings about it too, but somehow I'm able to override my own feelings about it for the sake of expediency, efficacy and group dynamics
    ^ This. This. This.

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