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  1. #601
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    This is just WOW. It's pregnant women now. What's next -- attacking puppies and babies? Seriously, completely insensitive and rude. Can't imagine this being related to type - just someone who lacks empathy (are you sure this person is an ENFP) and is very immature. Also very poor interpersonal skills. An ENFP? Really?
    Yes, she took the MBTI twice, and is high on all preferences. She seems very much like an ENFP to me -- she works as a battered women and children's rights activist (I know, the irony is unbearable). She is sensitive to her own feelings and sees herself as a martyr, she's just not sensitive to others' feelings who she has not deemed worthy of empathy. She does lack interpersonal skills, but to be fair, she is now going to therapy to work on this.

  2. #602
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    In my brother's case though, he says the same thing as you, but to most other people who talk about him it's pretty obvious that the reason they don't bring things up with him is because to do so is like running the gauntlet and seldom gets anywhere. The only possible outcomes, from personal experience of not just myself but many others, all share in common that you're left feeling very frustrated, dismissed, unheard and that you've had traits and motivations ascribed to you that are so absolutely ludicrous that it's as though your body was simply a stage prop filling in for the person he was actually talking about. He walks away happy because as far as he's concerned he's defended his corner and if you still have a problem then it's your fault, and it's no skin off his nose if you're a "loser", but the other person walks away feeling a lot of impotent frustration and rage that can take days to go away because the person you need to address about it, you know will simply not hear it or answer for it or take any responsibility for it at all.
    Judge and jury you mean? I will say that I do feel guilt-free if I have explained my position in a way that I see as being impartial and easy for everyone to understand.

    But I always personally give people the opportunity
    for others to react or clarify or whatever.


    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    He also takes absence of criticism as absence of flaws in himself
    This I can understand. The rest I don't relate with. It's about putting yourself out there and making decisions based on the feedback you get. If you don't get feedback you keep making the same mistakes.

    Like what I was mentioning before. Addressing the issue right away is paramount, otherwise I think you have no problems with it and will move on.


    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Ah, but how will you really truly know whether it's unwarranted unless you first let the person have their say and listen without getting defensive and upset, or walking away? With the ENFP's I know, half the time the reason they think it's unwarranted is because they have yet to actually listen to your whole point of view, and are stuck on what they've extrapolated your point to be from the half-sentences you can squeeze in between their self-justifications and seriously screwy retellings of events (man, I thought my Si was bad but these guys make me look like an ISxJ!). And sometimes I wonder if they don't sorta do that on purpose, because it's easier to argue against an insanely half-baked idea that nobody actually suggested, but which, if they did, would make them stupid and nasty people (and therefore easier to dimsiss) than to take on board the rather more sensible and possibly valid one that somebody actually did say, which might mean accepting that you've done wrong and having to apologize.
    Yeah personally can't relate. I always wait for people to finish before I say my piece.

  3. #603
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    The thing that's great about this site is the self awareness you are offered. I have toned myself down my degrees since seeing how people see ENTPs. Now for the ones that live in blissful ignorance, I am sure they can be accused of things that I just don't do (anymore...)
    Thanks Jeno. That's exactly what I am hoping for here as well. I'd like to learn and be more sensitive and be able to use my Fe as well as my Fi. That is most certainly a personal goal . I'm just finding it hard to discern some of those commonalities in this thread. I definitely have my ears open. Perhaps I'll read through again later.

  4. #604
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    I thought this thread would have a more productive goal - in trying to isolate traits that may be more general to the type. The problem with just reflecting personal experiences is that they are countered by more personal experiences in the negative. For example, if you've come across the same problem with several ENFPS, perhaps that may be type related (at least a better case made for it) versus an N of 1.

    Unless, this is meant to be a group vent against ENFPs by folsk who have small Ns of them in real life and came on to do precisely the above, see if their personal frustrations are reflected in others' experiences with ENFPs. Perhaps I misunderstood the purpose. I apologize profusely, if I did
    Everything regarding MBTI is a personal experience. It's entirely empirical.
    That being said, Lauren, Sub and I have all said the same thing today. We don't know each other and are on a different continent entirely with Sub. So it could stand to reason that these issues are not isolated and is characteristic of the type, even if not you specifically. Or it could another case of not being able to hear any negativity, like we've been saying?

    I don't know. I don't want to bash. But I get my fair share of bashing as well. I take it and listen and do what I can with it.

  5. #605
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post

    Unless, this is meant to be a group vent against ENFPs by folsk who have small Ns of them in real life and came on to do precisely the above, see if their personal frustrations are reflected in others' experiences with ENFPs. Perhaps I misunderstood the purpose. I apologize profusely, if I did
    I'd say that if lots of people rant about their personal ENFP's, and then compare rants and find that there are lots of common trends, then that would, presumably, mean that it's probably type related!!!


    that one?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  6. #606
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Everything regarding MBTI is a personal experience. It's entirely empirical.

    That being said, Lauren, Sub and I have all said the same thing today. We don't know each other and are on a different continent entirely with Sub. So it could stand to reason that these issues are not isolated and is characteristic of the type, even if not you specifically. Or it could another case of not being able to hear any negativity, like we've been saying?

    I don't know. I don't want to bash. But I get my fair share of bashing as well. I take it and listen and do what I can with it.
    I have no trouble with bashing. I don't see this exercise as bashing either since I don't know or identify personally with any of the people you all have mentioned. It's not personal. I'm really just trying to maximize my own learning. Empirical is fine but the sample size matters. That was the point I was trying to make.

    I'd like to read over and isolate things that you all agreed on versus the individual personal anecdotes. Some of them were so offensive on a humanitarian level, I wanted to issue a pope-style all encompassing apology on behalf of all ENFPs everywhere.

    If these were even remotely type related, I am horrified and wanting to take X cover again.

  7. #607
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    the ENFPs i know are bold, opinionated, and will always stick up for their friends...except when their SO is watching..
    (i can't and don't hate them, though.)

  8. #608
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    But what happens if I don't ever wish to discuss it with you?
    But I just wanna knooooooow...

    No seriously, sometimes I don't want to talk about things either. "I don't want to talk about it" usually means I don't want to talk about it and I do genuinely try to respect that.

    If you do, however say "I don't want to talk about it" and then proceed to repeatedly reference whatever it is they didn't talk about and then withdraw, eventually I will snap "Well do you want to talk about it or don't you? For someone who doesn't want to talk about it you sure seem to be mentioning it a lot." and then I get yelled at for being rude.

  9. #609
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Judge and jury you mean? I will say that I do feel guilt-free if I have explained my position in a way that I see as being impartial and easy for everyone to understand.
    Right. So you don't see anything to be gained in listening to other people's points of view and maybe incorporating them into your position? That does sound rather rigid and a tad self-righteous to me and yes, it does suggest that to you, the effect of your decisions on others is of little consequence. Can you see how that would create an impression of selfishness and insensitivity?

    This I can understand. The rest I don't relate with. It's about putting yourself out there and making decisions based on the feedback you get. If you don't get feedback you keep making the same mistakes.
    And if you do get feedback, but instantly dismiss it, then you also don't learn. And if you don't give people any reason to believe that giving you feedback is worth the effort, then they're not going to give you any. So if you really want the feedback and you really want to learn and improve yourself, I'd say to make sure you're not putting people off giving feedback, and if you don't feel like you're getting much, I'd say watch carefully how you react when you get it, and you'll get your answer.

    About addressing the issue right away - ENxP's in general can be quite the whirlwind. I know this to be the case, that though we're often okay to juggle a dozen things at once and adapt and move on very quickly, most other people need a bit more time. Sometimes people get dragged along in our wake without us realizing we're even making a "wake" (lol), and they don't even get to realize how we've affected them until after the event, when we've gone and they've got peace and quiet to think about things. So, I've learned that when someone brings something up with me, it's rather insensitive to dismiss it just because they took their time figuring it out or working up the courage to raise it with me. And it's even worse to accuse them of insincere or otherwise bad motives simply because they didn't say anything at the time.

    Yeah personally can't relate. I always wait for people to finish before I say my piece.
    My ENFP's always say that too, but they actually don't in reality
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  10. #610
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Did you know... Fe and Te are antagonistic.

    So, all these ENFPs saying they have Fe...



    Not hatin' per se. Just thinkin' it's a stupid conceit.

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