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  1. #571
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Also there's something I don't understand in others which is, if they have a problem why don't they voice them right away.
    Lauren : get a grip! Always hating on the ENFPs. :P
    I always always do. It's just not appreciated. Or even listened to. I repeat myself too often with a lot of ENFPs, so I tend to just keep them at a distance now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I don't know what you considering bitch territory but from my experience, if I generally get along well with everybody (i never really had a big argument with any of my friends) is because I kill conflict right away by embracing it. Speak my mind at all times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Yeah. I think what I meant by self-control was knowing how to separate the true feelings from all the stress. I was just trying to make it clear I think facing things head on is healthier in the long run. It's an important skill to perfect.
    Well you are certainly an anomaly. I find that most ENFPs I know are the first ones to hold it all in until an uncontrollable outburst happens and everything flows out.

    I have 3 separate ENFP friends that always freak out if I say "hey, can you stop doing x,y and z?" and then later they will call and apologize for overreacting (and expect an apology from me for bringing it up), but the damage has already been done. It doesn't encourage me to bring anything up in their presence because it gets to be an emotional showdown.

    I love them and they are wonderful people, but just this one aspect is troublesome for me, as I'm sure I annoy them as well.

  2. #572
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Here's a concrete example:

    ENFP guy is consistently flaking out on people. He makes promises and never keeps them. He allows people to put their trust in him and doesn't follow through. I say "Hey ENFP guy! What are you doing? Why bother making plans you don't keep?" He replies "I forgot/something came up" After a few more discussions about this same behavior he will say "Why don't people just get off my back? I need to do my own thing. I'm not hurting anybody." In effect blaming the circumstances, and other people and their interpretations.
    Yeah, I never really make promises unless I really mean them, because I understand how volatile certain stuff is.

    I do think people idealize ENFPs a bit, though. We are very independent. I'm always very careful how I word stuff. "Let me know if you need help" means just that. I'm not vouching help whenever. I'm letting the other person know I'll help if I can. There are ways to make it more decisive though, and I keep those for when I really want to help the person no matter what.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    What a trite remark. Nearly every NF believes this. It is hardly true, and actually irrelevant to what we're discussing. No one is reading into anything, this is blatant behavior.
    I was talking about people interpreting our behavior a certain way. Like taking issue with something like Jenocyde talked about. Not the actual thing in that particular case, but what lies beneath for us - matters of principle. People misinterpret my reasons for saying this or doing that all the time.

    And I was admitting to what could be perceived as a fault (me thinking I'm better at reading others then they are). Maybe this right here is an example of the kind of miscommunication I'm talking about.

  3. #573
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Here's a concrete example:

    ENFP guy is consistently flaking out on people. He makes promises and never keeps them. He allows people to put their trust in him and doesn't follow through. I say "Hey ENFP guy! What are you doing? Why bother making plans you don't keep?" He replies "I forgot/something came up." After a few more discussions about this same behavior he will say "Why don't people just get off my back? I need to do my own thing. I'm not hurting anybody." In effect blaming the circumstances, and other people and their interpretations.
    This is fascinating. How can you possibly deny a thing that actually physically happened? I flake out on people all the time and I KNOW this. I try to plan things well in advance just so that I will have ample time to cancel if needed.

    Do you have any more examples? I really wish I knew more ENFPs in real life. I need to study more examples in order to get a better idea of my type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    What a trite remark. Nearly every NF believes this. It is hardly true, and actually irrelevant to what we're discussing. No one is reading into anything, this is blatant behavior.
    NF awareness high five?

    (It bothers me immensely that there is no high five icon.)

  4. #574
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I always always do. It's just not appreciated. Or even listened to. I repeat myself too often with a lot of ENFPs, so I tend to just keep them at a distance now.

    Well you are certainly an anomaly. I find that most ENFPs I know are the first ones to hold it all in until an uncontrollable outburst happens and everything flows out.

    I have 3 separate ENFP friends that always freak out if I say "hey, can you stop doing x,y and z?" and then later they will call and apologize for overreacting (and expect an apology from me for bringing it up), but the damage has already been done. It doesn't encourage me to bring anything up in their presence because it gets to be an emotional showdown.

    I love them and they are wonderful people, but just this one aspect is troublesome for me, as I'm sure I annoy them as well.

    Well I'm not sure I'm the right person to tackle all of this...and I'm not sure I like to address this kind of stuff using a "type-related" angle for too long...I mean, it's stuff like this that makes me doubt about MBTI. People behave differently. MBTI is about cognition not behavior. I'm not necessarily an anomaly. Everyone is an anomaly, in a sense.

    A piece of advice when dealing with ENFPs though, if they are anything like me.... "Free spirits"... "Live and let live"...etc

    "Can you stop doing x,y and z?". Er...no. Tell me WHY I should first, and then I might consider it


    Don't boss an ENFP around. Don't tell him/her what to do. Make him/her feel guilty about doing it. That might be the only way to go about changing him/her. But, why would you really?

  5. #575
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I do think people idealize ENFPs a bit, though. We are very independent.
    :rolli:

    The is not about independence. ENFPs can be as independent as they wish, they just shouldn't give the impression that they will be there when needed, if in fact they will most likely not be. It's disingenuous.

    I was talking about people interpreting our behavior a certain way. Like taking issue with something like Jenocyde talked about. Not the actual thing in that particular case, but what lies beneath for us - matters of principle. People misinterpret my reasons for saying this or doing that all the time.
    Again, this is blatant behavior. Who said a person is reading into why you do something, instead of just taking issue with you doing it in the first place?

    And I was admitting to what could be perceived as a fault (me thinking I'm better at reading others then they are).
    Really? v

    I will say I believe more in my ability to read others than other abilities to read me (dunno if that is true for all ENFPs). I guess that's why they call the ENFP the "psychologist" in some instances too...
    That is not admitting to a fault. It's patting yourself on the back for being a genius people-reader. Spare me. I know truckloads of ENFPs irl and their people-reading skills could use help. They have a tendency of trusting the wrong people and distrusting the right ones.

  6. #576
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny Army View Post
    I agree with this wholeheartedly but the response I get most often to what I believe is total honesty is either anger or tears. I am often accused of being mean and cold because (for example) if, say, someone is complaining about girlfriend troubles and I can see a direct connection between their behaviour and their problem, I will tell them how it is their fault and how to correct it rather than go the "That sucks, man." route. I have found this kind of response to be the most valuable to me because it gets me out of my Fi-Si a blooo bloo blooo cave and into Ne-Te problem solving mode. I try to give people the response I would find most helpful in a given situation but I always get yelled at for being unsympathetic and bitchy. As far as I could tell, trying to solve their problem at all was me being sympathetic.
    i do that too tiny...if people ask for my advice they're going to get the truth as i see it even if it's not pretty.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #577
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I was talking about people interpreting our behavior a certain way. Like taking issue with something like Jenocyde talked about. Not the actual thing in that particular case, but what lies beneath for us - matters of principle. People misinterpret my reasons for saying this or doing that all the time.
    The point is I am not interpreting or misinterpreting anything. The reasons mean nothing to me at that point, it's the result. If I tell a friend a million times that I have to get off the phone but they keep talking, and I am forced to hang up, I am punished for days for my rude behavior and how s/he would never do something so rude.

    But meanwhile, the reason why I had to be so rude in the first place is never addressed. If I say that there was no other option for me but that, it results in denial that I ever indicated I needed to go in the first place. And things will never be better until I apologize for my behavior. Stuff like that.

    But after an hour long argument, almost all ENFPs will concede if, and only if, they can understand why I needed to go so badly. Then I will get a half assed "oh, your dad was dying, I understand why now you were so testy with me. Ok, I'm sorry for not letting you go earlier, I just didn't understand why it was so important. had I known, I surely would have let you go".

    Which is entirely beside the point. Why I have to go is none of your business, and I should not have to explain things to you in order to get off the phone. And my urgent reason is not the blame. I'm upset with you because you wouldn't let me get off the phone not because my dad was dying, or whatever. Meaning, I am legitimately upset with you and am not projecting my feelings from another situation.


    EDIT: I just saw your "tell me why" comment.
    my point exactly. it's none of your business. you don't need to understand, but you do need to accept.

  8. #578
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    "Can you stop doing x,y and z?". Er...no. Tell me WHY I should first, and then I might consider it
    I definitely tell ENFPs why their behavior is an issue.


    Don't boss an ENFP around. Don't tell him/her what to do. Make him/her feel guilty about doing it. That might be the only way to go about changing him/her. But, why would you really?
    Why should a person have to make another feel guilty? Why can't they just discuss it like two adults?

  9. #579
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny Army View Post
    I have often been told I do the opposite; criticise people thoroughly without taking into account that it might hurt their feelings because I firmly believe that a criticism of your actions is not a criticism of your character. Some ENFPs are going to be feelier than others, I guess others like me have wandered into bitch territory and ain't coming back.
    Me too! I relate. If anything, it doesn't feel real when there isn't constructive criticism shared. That seems to be a natural part of any activity.

  10. #580
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    :rolli:

    The is not about independence. ENFPs can be as independent as they wish, just don't give the impression that they will be there when needed, if in fact they will most likely not be. It's disingenuous.
    I didn't excuse his behavior did I? I was just being as vague as I could because obviously I can't vouch for every ENFP out there. I was saying I'm all about independence and not tying myself to any one thing unless I really want to.

    Again, this is blatant behavior. Who said a person is reading into why you do something, instead of just taking issue with you doing it in the first place?
    That's just it. The person is taking issue with me doing it in the first place but I happen to know why I do it and have a good reason to do it. So why should I change? It's a matter of principle. If' it's not something blatantly inconsiderate on my part I don't see why you should criticize me for it and even why I should bother with dealing with the fact you are annoyed.



    Really? v
    Could you please clarify. I do think I'm better at reading people than most. I have a big ego, yes.



    That is not admitting to a fault. It's patting yourself on the back for being a genius people-reader. Spare me. I know truckloads of ENFPs irl and their people-reading skills could use help. They have a tendency of trusting the wrong people and distrusting the right ones.
    In the off-chance my people reading skills fail me...do I detect a hint of annoyance in your speech? :P

    I'm not admitting to a fault. I'm admitting to believin I think I'm good at it, which could be perceived as a fault. I make no excuses for thinking I'm good at something.

    And why are you talking about other ENFPs? This is not a healthy way to view things, that's what I've been telling you. Take my comments at face value instead of trying to compare them to other ENFP people you might now.

    This kind of topic I never understood. Behavior and cognition are two different things, like I said before.

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