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  1. #461
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Argh.

    Need an ESFP to step in?

    Se is both practical and instinctual. Se takes what it sees and uses it to make the best decision/ most desired decision for the very moment.

    Ne- taking things imagined, seen in the future, (opportunities possible or not possible) and lives off of these visions. What's more practical about that?
    I think Ne can in the long run can come off a lot more flaky, unrealistic, off in the clouds, and unpractical.

    (Not all the time, but more often than Se.)

    Se being more instinctual for the same reason. Someone made the comment "Bunnies observe things and act- dogs observe things and act on them." Well, as degrading as that is towards myself, it is true. You don't see animals using Ne. (Well, maybe. you never know.) Se is the very first and basic thought process IMO. The difference being that we're humans and not animals, and using that external input, we can learn, comprehend, make rational and intelligent human decisions. (Whether the Se decides to do that or not is up to them). I wouldn't call it a lack of N, more than a lack of need for N, or lack of want to use N. (Well for me anyway, I have no need to think about anything except for what's going on around me right now. It may be different for others.)

    As far as hating an ENFP, NO! of course not!

    I just hate when i'm at work with them and there are fifty million things going on and you're trying to communicate with them and make them work faster and they are off in their bubbly little cloud world. Any other situation, they are awesome!

  2. #462
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    I contend that S is merely a cognitive or emotional orientation towards the present reality, while N is a cognitive or emotional orientation towards other realities. Extroverted (outward-based energy) expressions of the "present reality orientation" S function are most commonly seen by our society (imo) as being called "instinct". Ever met someone who was ten times better than you at skateboarding, but you couldn't exactly explain why? Same body type, same structure, nothing in science necessarily that dictated that you couldn't do the things he did with enough practice and skill, and yet practice and skill don't garner it, even after years. It's a kind of inborn ability to memorize with the body as opposed to memorizing with the mind, and I think part of how that works is that the aperture to the present reality is open like, 100 percent, as opposed to it maybe being 50-60 percent with a Se tertiary like an ENTJ maybe, and with an INTJ? Well I know from my own personal life (and from various photos of me as a child on top of playground equipment that I had climbed up and, being too afraid to climb back down, was openly weeping at the summit of) that I'm probably about 8-10 percent, in terms of that aperture. You know, stuff like, paying attention to cars on the street so they don't run me over, walking down stairs correctly with one leg and the other alternating so I don't fall all over myself...


    basic stuff.



    tinytext alert: Kalach, I've started a txt file with some further ruminations regarding the nature of contradictory Ni and it's possible origins. It might be a far deeper issue, I will definitely do a thread dump at some stage.

  3. #463
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    Also: EP Te FTW!

  4. #464
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendo Barbarosa View Post

    tinytext alert: Kalach, I've started a txt file with some further ruminations regarding the nature of contradictory Ni and it's possible origins. It might be a far deeper issue, I will definitely do a thread dump at some stage.

    Excellente! I feel I may attempt to ruminate on this too.


    And I have discovered coloured text.

  5. #465
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendo Barbarosa View Post
    I contend that S is merely a cognitive or emotional orientation towards the present reality, while N is a cognitive or emotional orientation towards other realities. Extroverted (outward-based energy) expressions of the "present reality orientation" S function are most commonly seen by our society (imo) as being called "instinct". Ever met someone who was ten times better than you at skateboarding, but you couldn't exactly explain why? Same body type, same structure, nothing in science necessarily that dictated that you couldn't do the things he did with enough practice and skill, and yet practice and skill don't garner it, even after years. It's a kind of inborn ability to memorize with the body as opposed to memorizing with the mind, and I think part of how that works is that the aperture to the present reality is open like, 100 percent, as opposed to it maybe being 50-60 percent with a Se tertiary like an ENTJ maybe, and with an INTJ? Well I know from my own personal life (and from various photos of me as a child on top of playground equipment that I had climbed up and, being too afraid to climb back down, was openly weeping at the summit of) that I'm probably about 8-10 percent, in terms of that aperture. You know, stuff like, paying attention to cars on the street so they don't run me over, walking down stairs correctly with one leg and the other alternating so I don't fall all over myself...


    I often feel the same as you did at the playground.

  6. #466
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    Se inferiority is a tough row to hoe. Later in life with me it would manifest more like, I'm at christian summer camp, and kids are all lining up out back to just randomly jump off this cliff. We're about the fourth kid in, and I'm contemplating whether I should join the line, cuz it kind of looks fun.

    Further examination reveals that it's not a harmful jump at all, and you land in a soft bed of grass, albeit from a long ways up, so yeah...there is a probability you could land on a bone the wrong way and break it, see, or maybe...

    (already, Se fail. See?)

    I've always been that person who starts off timidly approaching Se and then when it bites at me, I go "fuck it. I don't need this." When I was a kid, I guess that manifested more in just all out weeping.

  7. #467
    Member 7thsomebody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I've only met one ENFP in real life--my aunt. She's a saint who drives me up the wall. I lived with her for 3 years. I'm not sure I can attribute all her bothersome traits to her personality type, though; it's probably just her particular combination of things.

    Rant:
    1) She has pouncing monologues. I always think of her as a spider with a huge sticky web. If you're full of your own thoughts, exploring some idea or experience, and happen to walk near her general vicinity, she'll pounce on you and subject you to a monologue about nothing. And it doesn't end. If you are nice and polite and put away your own thoughts so you can make her happy and pay attention to her, she goes on and on and on and on... If you try to steer the conversation toward something meaningful and interesting, she'll flit all around but never settle long enough join your thoughts. The only way to get away is just to walk away while she's talking to you. Even if you excuse yourself first, she'll keep talking WHILE YOU'RE WALKING AWAY!!!!!

    2) She can't think unless her mouth is engaged. I used to have to work with her, and we had to collaborate on ideas for newsletters and stuff. I'd come to the meeting with all my ideas planned out and ready to present. She'd come with no ideas at all, and then want to waste my time just talking about her own ideas until she decided which ones she liked (this could take several hours of nonstop talking). It used to tie me into knots because every idea she presented I'd take quite seriously and begin to reconstruct my own plans around it--and then 15 minutes later she'd change her mind.

    3) She loves sad stories, loves to tell them, and loves to weep while she tells them. And she wants you to weep with her.

    4) Everyone who is in some difficult situation, she sees as a victim. It's not the poor person's fault; we should fix everything for them! Of course this comes from a wonderfully loving and gentle heart, but it hasn't been particularly good for her children.

    5) She doesn't really want to know you--she just wants to know enough to feel close to you. In the beginning I made the mistake of thinking that she really did want to know me, and all that annoying talking was her way of being friends. But when I'd open up and share myself with her, she'd take it with a grain of salt. I suppose that's because she's accustomed to talking about herself so much that it doesn't mean a lot to her, so she assumes it's true for others. It surprised and hurt me at first; then I was resentful for a while. Now I don't expect real understanding from her, so it's not so bad. Only that NF part of her keeps begging that NF part of me to share and bond and so forth, and I have to keep reminding myself that it's just an illusion and not to be taken seriously.

    6) Absolutely nothing can be discussed dispassionately.

    7) One of her pet ways of making people feel good about themselves is to act as though that person is practically saving her life by helping her out somehow. When she needs something, she'll come begging. The sticky neediness of her begging annoys me no end, but I think she does it because she's found that it makes some people feel good about themselves to be needed in that way. It seems very manipulative to me. She thanked me over and over for feeding some kittens of a stray cat. It bothered me because it was only a little thing that I wanted to do anyway and I never expected her to care about the kittens--she had way too much other stuff to do. But then she acted like I was a little angel to spend 10 minutes a day with kittens. (As though it were a chore!--they're KITTENS!) If she really felt that grateful, it'd be one thing--but she doesn't. She just wants to say it so you'll feel appreciated.

    8) That tendency to manipulate is very pronounced in her. (I think I maybe guilty of this myself, but not as much as she.) She'll pretend like everything is her fault just to get people to stop arguing. That drives me up the wall! It makes me so angry that she says things that are patently false just to make people feel good, rather than let people argue and work through the issue themselves.

    9) She always wants to touch you. Hug you or hold your hand or something, especially when you're annoyed with her. Gah, I hate that! The last thing I want to do is hold the hand of someone I'm annoyed with. And she stands too close; her personal space is way too small.

    I'm going to stop here. It's probably not healthy for me to think this much about things I dislike about her.

    The time I liked her best was when she got angry and smashed her fist against the doorpost. I thought, "Finally! A genuine expression rather than one specifically designed to make people feel good." Only she ruined it later by apologizing to me for letting me see her angry.
    Oh dear. In pretty much every way, this is true of most of us ENFPs. however, the whole lack of genuine thing and the not getting to want to know you is false. Her making you want to feel good and appreciated is a very genuine feeling. I think whilst what you said is true, most of it is superficial. The reasoning behind most is deeper and on the whole it goes further than that.

  8. #468
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    My best friend is an enfp and doesnt use his brain.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  9. #469
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therationaledge View Post
    My best friend is an enfp and doesnt use his brain.
    If we talk to him, is he going to say that you don't use your hypothalamus and frontal lobes?




    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  10. #470
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therationaledge View Post
    My best friend is an enfp and doesnt use his brain.
    so ironic coming from an INTP :rolli:
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

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