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  1. #371
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    If being J is NOT my mandate for being right about everything, being P is not your mandate for making everything fuzzy.

    What I come up with is useable. When it's based on fragments, it fails.



    oh, and ps. being J makes me interested in thinking things through to their conclusion, but it doesn't make me responsible for it. Y'all gotta do that yourselves sometimes, too.

  2. #372

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If being J is NOT my mandate for being right about everything, being P is not your mandate for making everything fuzzy.

    What I come up with is useable. When it's based on fragments, it fails.



    oh, and ps. being J makes me interested in thinking things through to their conclusion, but it doesn't make me responsible for it. Y'all gotta do that yourselves sometimes, too.
    .
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  3. #373
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    How can anyone hate ENFP's?!. Unless they use their Fi's for assholic purposes, they are marvelous. They are one of the types i have most kinship with.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  4. #374
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    I know a bunch of enfp's and I like them all, one previous roommate of mine is an enfp. Most are very sociable, fun, intelligent, and competitive...show offs and a little chaotic at times. They're rarely found, as a majority, in politics, and at least from what I can tell, usually hate that kind of discussion which I really enjoy. So, that is a small annoyance, just the dismissiveness of matters of political and fundamental importance to humanity. They're also kinda needy, and attention getters and can sometimes come across as being very proud and arrogant because they need to be in the center of attention, to feel loved all the time, and get moody when they aren't. As a whole, I like them, they're all really funny usually, and good actors and great comedians, at least in their own right. So, I guess I hate a couple things about them, but as a group I like them all and have a much easier time with enfp's than many other types.
    Fine with the majority of your descriptions, except the dismissing of philosophy you spoke of. To this day, I haven't met a single mature ENFP without a passion for abstract matters. We get a lot of energy from ideas... in fact, I'll get depressed after awhile if my current belief system goes unchallenged and no one is willing to discuss these things. Are you sure they aren't ESFPs? We're very similar! All of the fun, less "drama"!

  5. #375
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I've yet to meet an ENFP who'll present anything other than a fragment. You already knew where you were going and you tossed out something to keep me occupied. Gets old.

    You see? Some people can't conceive of discussion for the hell of it, it seems. Why must I be backing up a specific stance? If anything, it's often more about proving there's another side to the coin and that the other person isn't taking everything into consideration. In A VS B arguments it might seem I'm disproving A to because I agree with B, but that's often not the case at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1
    They're rarely found, as a majority, in politics, and at least from what I can tell, usually hate that kind of discussion which I really enjoy. So, that is a small annoyance, just the dismissiveness of matters of political and fundamental importance to humanity.
    I think that's a misconception as well. I personally love talking about politics. Just don't try to make it so clear-cut. Think brainstorming, not duel. If I think the other person is too close-minded to think in Ne terms of the big picture and all the various possibilities, I refrain from talking politics for too long. Discussing philosophy/politics with an SJ in particular, for example, can be quite draining.

  6. #376
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The million questions...

    The million, billion questions... stuff you just come up with, seeking a comprehensive understanding.

    And the watchful, tactical Te guarding your feelings. (Yeah, I know... how ironic, but on with the rant anyway...)

    It takes a freaking long time for you to announce a position, even though the position is so very freaking obvious from what you're up to with these questions.

    It's wearing.


    I don't hate it. I do get tired.
    Hm..
    Objection noted. I do ask a lot of questions, but always feel my way around things, attempting to avoid annoying others.

    If it does tire you, please inform us!

    Generally, we're more than willing to accommodate other people.

    As for Te guarding Fi... ever seen that thing run loose? It's really its own animal and it rarely has a place in normal social background. If we didn't have Te predicting/avoiding certain topics or justifying us after an Fi outburst, the narcissistic wounds would be unbearable.

    Yeah, I can see how that can get tiring.

    As for throwing seemingly random fragments, I'm afraid I can't defend myself against that one. It's in my nature to see meaning in the slightest things and be overjoyed with the task of piecing it all together in a very open-ended [not always consistent] system.

    Still.. your picture. Its hard to be mad at you.

  7. #377
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    You see? Some people can't conceive of discussion for the hell of it, it seems. Why must I be backing up a specific stance? If anything, it's often more about proving there's another side to the coin and that the other person isn't taking everything into consideration. In A VS B arguments it might seem I'm disproving A to because I agree with B, but that's often not the case at all.



    I think that's a misconception as well. I personally love talking about politics. Just don't try to make it so clear-cut. Think brainstorming, not duel. If I think the other person is too close-minded to think in Ne terms of the big picture and all the various possibilities, I refrain from talking politics for too long. Discussing philosophy/politics with an SJ in particular, for example, can be quite draining.
    i agree with both of these too...our objectives are different...we're talking to explore the idea or question...and you're talking to reach a conclusion and settle the topic.

    and...i don't enjoy talking politics or anything controversial with anyone who takes a judging stance or feels their position is superior and i won't do it either...but i'll talk all damn night with someone just interested in my view and sharing theirs without trying to disprove either.

  8. #378
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Discussion for the sake of discussion? Conceiving of it's easy. Taking part? Dudes, gimmie a break, I'm carrying around a monster Ni here!

    Besides, the deal with the million questions and the delay on taking a position isn't just P being P. It's trust. It takes you guys a while to decide if someone can be trusted to know all of the uncertainties you have on a given question (or even what the real question is), and meanwhile you can entertain them with some colourful, curious fragment.

    And how I do with the fragment is a test too. So, yay for Ne and tactical Te.

  9. #379
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    rather or not we can trust you to just talk without disproving yeah...that's fair. i think it's pretty typical of us to value an individuals right to their opinion so trying to devalue it doesn't sit well with me at all.

  10. #380
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Discussion for the sake of discussion? Conceiving of it's easy. Taking part? Dudes, gimmie a break, I'm carrying around a monster Ni here!

    Besides, the deal with the million questions and the delay on taking a position isn't just P being P. It's trust. It takes you guys a while to decide if someone can be trusted to know all of the uncertainties you have on a given question (or even what the real question is), and meanwhile you can entertain them with some colourful, curious fragment.
    Monster Ni indeed. That is your interpretation. It's not uncertainty so much as being open to the idea that one is wrong. Otherwise there is no point in a debate. I want to be proven wrong. It's how we test the boundaries of our theories.

    As for trust I think you aren't giving us enough credit as far as independent thinking is concerned. If you truly know any ENFPs than you know them to be quite confident in their sometimes esoteric worldviews.

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