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[ENFP] Hate an ENFP? Tell us why!

jenocyde

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Also, I think they sorta need to be adored a bit too much sometimes, so that the slightest expression, however calm or respectful, of disapproval or disagreement with a way that they've behaved can be taken as a great attack on them and they react very very defensively. Whilst all the time trying to pin the blame for what they call "the argument" (but which needn't have been one if they'd responded as calmly as you initiated) on you, projecting their own oversensitivity onto you.

I've noticed a tendency in my brother and another couple of ENFP's that I know, to be just incapable of ever apologizing. They have an image of themselves as being very gracious and generous and all that, but if you actually put it to the test you find that to them it's all about them, no matter how much you say it's not about criticizing or attacking them but about trying to express how you feel, they still seem much more intent on just shutting you up and they're happy to sweep it under the carpet without giving you the chance to properly have your say, no matter how frustrated or upset that leaves you, as long as they don't have to listen to anything that might imply that they're not perfect, and as long as the "conflict" ends. They use the word "conflict" to mean "somebody speaking in a voice that isn't either completely flat or jokey and laughing, particularly when they're talking about me".

+1
More often than not, I am forced to apologize for daring to 'criticize' them, especially in my 'horrible, brutish' manner. The tears, the agony.

But ironically, the initial criticism/issue never gets addressed. The argument is always about how I say something, but never what I actually say. It can be a bit annoying. But whatever...
 

Moiety

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I'll tell you one thing Substitute, I might not show it, but nothing pisses me off more than unwarranted or unfair criticism from people I like. So although I don't relate to your brother's description, I also don't know the context in which such arguments happen.

Also there's something I don't understand in others which is, if they have a problem why don't they voice them right away. Instead I see people bottling things inside until they are fed up with it and then they voice it and it makes no sense because they've never complained before about it. So in my eyes I see it as them not even giving me a chance to adjust my behavior. It's as if they waited for me to feel comfortable only to say they never liked it in the first place.



Lauren : get a grip! Always hating on the ENFPs. :p
 

Lauren Ashley

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But ironically, the initial criticism/issue never gets addressed.

This is my real problem with this. I don't mind any fuss as long as we can actually work out the issue. I don't know. I thought it was just a J need for closure, but if others think this way too...

Yes, actually...I doubt it is the same person since we live in different countries though.
She travels and we're on the same continent! What's the last letter of her name?

Lauren : get a grip! Always hating on the ENFPs. :p

Exactly! Focusing on being criticized instead of the actual criticism. I have a strong love of ENxPs, and I only comment out of the goodness of my heart :wubbie:
 

Tiny Army

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Sometimes the rampant and open idealism can be rather grating... like when I take my ENFP brother on vacation to see one of the wonders of the world and am unable to take it in or enjoy it because he's grumbling and complaining in my ear the whole time, very vociferously, about how disgusted and disappointed and upset he is that there are - GASP! - souvenir shops everywhere!

Cos like, you know, he expected it to be all pristine and full of high brow super respectful middle class graduates and only the most tasteful and relevant and organic locally sourced ethically traded hand made exquisite souvenirs to be sold! :rolleyes:

Also, I think they sorta need to be adored a bit too much sometimes, so that the slightest expression, however calm or respectful, of disapproval or disagreement with a way that they've behaved can be taken as a great attack on them and they react very very defensively. Whilst all the time trying to pin the blame for what they call "the argument" (but which needn't have been one if they'd responded as calmly as you initiated) on you, projecting their own oversensitivity onto you.

I've noticed a tendency in my brother and another couple of ENFP's that I know, to be just incapable of ever apologizing. They have an image of themselves as being very gracious and generous and all that, but if you actually put it to the test you find that to them it's all about them, no matter how much you say it's not about criticizing or attacking them but about trying to express how you feel, they still seem much more intent on just shutting you up and they're happy to sweep it under the carpet without giving you the chance to properly have your say, no matter how frustrated or upset that leaves you, as long as they don't have to listen to anything that might imply that they're not perfect, and as long as the "conflict" ends. They use the word "conflict" to mean "somebody speaking in a voice that isn't either completely flat or jokey and laughing, particularly when they're talking about me".

This is interesting, I have had VERY similar experiences with INFPs and ENFJs. I have come to the conclusion that there are four major kinds of ENFP and each comes with their own flaws and positive attributes. I am always asking for critiques because I am always searching for an objective means to improve myself and my behaviour. I have often been told I do the opposite; criticise people thoroughly without taking into account that it might hurt their feelings because I firmly believe that a criticism of your actions is not a criticism of your character.

Some ENFPs are going to be feelier than others, I guess:blush: others like me have wandered into bitch territory and ain't coming back.
 

Moiety

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This is interesting, I have had VERY similar experiences with INFPs and ENFJs. I have come to the conclusion that there are four major kinds of ENFP and each comes with their own flaws and positive attributes. I am always asking for critiques because I am always searching for an objective means to improve myself and my behaviour. I have often been told I do the opposite; criticise people thoroughly without taking into account that it might hurt their feelings because I firmly believe that a criticism of your actions is not a criticism of your character.

Some ENFPs are going to be feelier than others, I guess:blush: others like me have wandered into bitch territory and ain't weaklings coming back.

I don't know what you considering bitch territory but from my experience, if I generally get along well with everybody (i never really had a big argument with any of my friends) is because I kill conflict right away by embracing it. Speak my mind at all times.

I've come to the conclusion that most arguments tend to be about bottled up stuff. If people had the balls to just say what's on their mind everyone would live much more peacefully. But that evil Fe is always lurking...weaklings! Preserving the harmony? NO thanks. Not at the cost of truthfulness!
 

Rhapsody

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Quarantine, my ass. Learn some self-control.

Amargith might have meant something different, but I was using "quarantine" as a metaphor for self-control. When I'm emotionally overwhelmed, I keep myself from acting on those emotions by going into lock-down mode—keeping the volatile emotions quarantined, so to speak, until they're neutralized and no longer a threat to the people around me.
 

Lauren Ashley

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But that evil Fe is always lurking...weaklings! Preserving the harmony? NO thanks. Not at the cost of truthfulness!

Sure...:dry:

Could it be that the ENFP does not feel (s)he has actually done anything to take issue with? Truth in matters like these is very subjective.
 

Moiety

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Amargith might have meant something different, but I was using "quarantine" as a metaphor for self-control. When I'm emotionally overwhelmed, I keep myself from acting on those emotions by going into lock-down mode—keeping the volatile emotions quarantined, so to speak, until they're neutralized and no longer a threat to the people around me.

Yeah. I think what I meant by self-control was knowing how to separate the true feelings from all the stress. I was just trying to make it clear I think facing things head on is healthier in the long run. It's an important skill to perfect.
 

Moiety

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Sure...:dry:

Could it be that the ENFP does not feel (s)he has actually done anything to take issue with? Truth in matters like these is very subjective.

Yes that could very well be. And it's easily explained too.

I can only speak for myself, but I never really have any regrets in personal relationships. I am what I am, and always strive to be completely transparent. You either like me or you don't. So if you lead me to believe you like me and keep ignoring the stuff you don't like about me for the sake of harmony, but then say something like "actually I find this particularly unnerving in ya", you kinda leave me baffled because I'm left thinking that our friendship or whatever was better than this and you already felt comfortable enough in the past to address it at the time. And if not...why?

Don't want this to come across as bitching about every single thing all the time. lol, I'm pretty chill. Which is why I don't get these dramatic ENFPs people keep talking about.


jenocyde said:
But ironically, the initial criticism/issue never gets addressed. The argument is always about how I say something, but never what I actually say. It can be a bit annoying. But whatever...

I can understand this in the context of "it's a matter of principle". If it's out of the blue you leave me wondering why the hell this was never brought up before.
 

Thessaly

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It is possible indeed to be so overwhelmed by your own emotions that you no longer sense others. I think it happens mostly to young ENFPs who are pretty much drowning in their own feelings and still learning how to swim. It's unlikely that you're gonna pay attention to anyone else drowning at that point.

Nowadays, I actually am careful to go full Ne, because of that. Coz when I get in the Ne-zone and basking in that feeling, I don't notice other peoples reactions as fast as I normally would, which can cause bruised feelings when I go overboard. Also, when I feel I'm drowning in bad emotions, I quarantine myself, as I know I won't be able to control my emotions spilling onto others. I need to get a grip first.

INFPs have the same main functions as us though,..you don't experience this yourself?

Not particularly, no. I'm always aware of other people's feelings even when upset. I can choose to overlook them if I'm hysterical I guess, but that doesn't happen to much.
 

Rhapsody

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I don't think I've ever met an ENFP I didn't get along with, but since this is the hate thread ... :devil:

One thing that bugs me in a close ENFP friend of mine is when she switches back and forth between Ne+Fi mode and Ne+Te mode (or maybe it's just pure Te mode). One minute she's flaky and fluffy, a huge procrastinator who couldn't get somewhere on time if you paid her ... the next minute she's turned into this Te taskmaster who can't stop complaining about other people's flakiness. :shock: It gives me whiplash! I'm cool with her Te, I just wish she'd be consistent/less hypocritical about it. I mean, get on top of your own life, girlfriend, before you start trying to clean other people's houses. :steam:

She's the only ENFP I've seen do this, though, so it must be more of an individual thing.
 

Thessaly

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This is my real problem with this. I don't mind any fuss as long as we can actually work out the issue. I don't know. I thought it was just a J need for closure, but if others think this way too...


She travels and we're on the same continent! What's the last letter of her name?



Exactly! Focusing on being criticized instead of the actual criticism. I have a strong love of ENxPs, and I only comment out of the goodness of my heart :wubbie:

C
 

Tiny Army

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I don't think I've ever met an ENFP I didn't get along with, but since this is the hate thread ... :devil:

One thing that bugs me in a close ENFP friend of mine is when she switches back and forth between Ne+Fi mode and Ne+Te mode (or maybe it's just pure Te mode). One minute she's flaky and fluffy, a huge procrastinator who couldn't get somewhere on time if you paid her ... the next minute she's turned into this Te taskmaster who can't stop complaining about other people's flakiness. :shock: It gives me whiplash! I'm cool with her Te, I just wish she'd be consistent/less hypocritical about it. I mean, get on top of your own life, girlfriend, before you start trying to clean other people's houses. :steam:

She's the only ENFP I've seen do this, though, so it must be more of an individual thing.

No, no I do this too. I'm a giant flake but when I plan, I plan like a MOTHERFUCKER. Unfortunately if other people mess up the plan I get pissed. About as pissed as I get at myself whenever I am in a difficult situation caused entirely by my own lack of planning.
 

Rhapsody

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Yeah. I think what I meant by self-control was knowing how to separate the true feelings from all the stress. I was just trying to make it clear I think facing things head on is healthier in the long run. It's an important skill to perfect.

Oh ok, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, facing things head on (and untangling the feelings that matter from the rest of the mess) is still something I'm trying to get a handle on. :)
 

Thessaly

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I don't think I've ever met an ENFP I didn't get along with, but since this is the hate thread ... :devil:

One thing that bugs me in a close ENFP friend of mine is when she switches back and forth between Ne+Fi mode and Ne+Te mode (or maybe it's just pure Te mode). One minute she's flaky and fluffy, a huge procrastinator who couldn't get somewhere on time if you paid her ... the next minute she's turned into this Te taskmaster who can't stop complaining about other people's flakiness. :shock: It gives me whiplash! I'm cool with her Te, I just wish she'd be consistent/less hypocritical about it. I mean, get on top of your own life, girlfriend, before you start trying to clean other people's houses. :steam:

She's the only ENFP I've seen do this, though, so it must be more of an individual thing.

My ex ENFP roommate was the biggest hypocrite that ever lived. And the whole not acknowledging criticism thing resonates well. I'm hanging out with a male ENFP right now and he doesn't seem to be like that. He's in his late twenties though so perhaps he's an enlightened ENFP lol.
 

Lauren Ashley

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I can only speak for myself, but I never really have any regrets in personal relationships. I am what I am, and always strive to be completely transparent. You either like me or you don't. So if you lead me to believe you like me and keep ignoring the stuff you don't like about me for the sake of harmony, but then say something like "actually I find this particularly unnerving in ya", you kinda leave me baffled because I'm left thinking that our friendship or whatever was better than this and you already felt comfortable enough in the past to address it at the time. And if not...why?

You're assuming that the person took issues with previous behavior, instead of just the current. I don't know if that is what Sub or Jen were talking about, but it's not what I was talking about. I do appreciate my relationships and don't want to cause undue conflict, but I will speak up at the time of the issue. I'm a blunt person. But I don't know if this is just a personal trait of mine. My Fe could actually use some work.
 

Thessaly

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Yes that could very well be. And it's easily explained too.

I can only speak for myself, but I never really have any regrets in personal relationships. I am what I am, and always strive to be completely transparent. You either like me or you don't. So if you lead me to believe you like me and keep ignoring the stuff you don't like about me for the sake of harmony, but then say something like "actually I find this particularly unnerving in ya", you kinda leave me baffled because I'm left thinking that our friendship or whatever was better than this and you already felt comfortable enough in the past to address it at the time. And if not...why?

Don't want this to come across as bitching about every single thing all the time. lol, I'm pretty chill. Which is why I don't get these dramatic ENFPs people keep talking about.




I can understand this in the context of "it's a matter of principle". If it's out of the blue you leave me wondering why the hell this was never brought up before.

I often don't bother with correcting ENFPs because they take criticism so poorly and don't often change their ways. It seems pointless then to me to even take action because the cost outweighs the benefit until things get out of hand.
 

Tiny Army

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I don't know what you considering bitch territory but from my experience, if I generally get along well with everybody (i never really had a big argument with any of my friends) is because I kill conflict right away by embracing it. Speak my mind at all times.

I've come to the conclusion that most arguments tend to be about bottled up stuff. If people had the balls to just say what's on their mind everyone would live much more peacefully. But that evil Fe is always lurking...weaklings! Preserving the harmony? NO thanks. Not at the cost of truthfulness!

I agree with this wholeheartedly but the response I get most often to what I believe is total honesty is either anger or tears. I am often accused of being mean and cold because (for example) if, say, someone is complaining about girlfriend troubles and I can see a direct connection between their behaviour and their problem, I will tell them how it is their fault and how to correct it rather than go the "That sucks, man." route. I have found this kind of response to be the most valuable to me because it gets me out of my Fi-Si a blooo bloo blooo cave and into Ne-Te problem solving mode. I try to give people the response I would find most helpful in a given situation but I always get yelled at for being unsympathetic and bitchy. As far as I could tell, trying to solve their problem at all was me being sympathetic.
 

Moiety

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You're assuming that the person took issues with previous behavior, instead of just the current.

Yes, because I'm trying to explain an unjustifiably dramatic behaviour on the ENFPs part, which is what they were hinting at, from what I understood. That's the only way I could see myself even remotely riled up, anyway.

I don't know if that is what Sub or Jen were talking about, but it's not what I was talking about. I do appreciate my relationships and don't want to cause undue conflict, but I will speak up at the time of the issue. I'm a blunt person. But I don't know if this is just a personal trait of mine. My Fe could actually use some work.

Well if it's about taking issues with something new, it would have to be a comment that really went against my core for me to get annoyed.



But I'm just one ENFP anyway.I must say though, this beehive mentality of pinpointing type-specific traits is not really my thing. There's just so much I can't relate to at all in this thread alone...

I often don't bother with correcting ENFPs because they take criticism so poorly and don't often change their ways. It seems pointless then to me to even take action because the cost outweighs the benefit until things get out of hand.

Hey, I do have a heart. If you smell I might not tell you until it gets out of hand myself :tongue:

I agree with this wholeheartedly but the response I get most often to what I believe is total honesty is either anger or tears. I am often accused of being mean and cold because (for example) if, say, someone is complaining about girlfriend troubles and I can see a direct connection between their behaviour and their problem, I will tell them how it is their fault and how to correct it rather than go the "That sucks, man." route. I have found this kind of response to be the most valuable to me because it gets me out of my Fi-Si a blooo bloo blooo cave and into Ne-Te problem solving mode. I try to give people the response I would find most helpful in a given situation but I always get yelled at for being unsympathetic and bitchy. As far as I could tell, trying to solve their problem at all was me being sympathetic.

Well, when it comes to advice (i was talking in a broader context of reacting to something I don't like or something), I'll strive to make the person arrive to his/her own conclusions. Using questions instead of accusations works better for my experience. Make them wonder about they've done wrong or not instead of telling them they did.
 
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