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  1. #1031
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vizconde View Post
    I only think it would piss the xNFP off more if the INTP tried to attempt to do it. They would reverse engineer what the INTP originally thought and then get offended about what the INTP would have said anyway.

    INTPs know they are not good at this anyway and that why they are said to disdain "political correctness".

    The best thing to do in these scienarios is not try to fix the goof but with the ENFP simply change the subject. A subject about the ENFP having done some courageous or sublime act is good bait for the ENFP to chase after.
    Good ploy. I'll try that next time.

  2. #1032
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    Oh yeah, subject change. I do that.

  3. #1033
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    I'm still talking about random INTPs

    ENFPs can be irritating as heck. I guess the people who like us see enough positives to get past the irritation.
    Oh, I do like ENFPs. I stand my my initial statement. They're fun, and they make me laugh. They also give me more grief than any other type, which is why I posted here to begin with.

    Edit: Also, I can be pretty random, so I assumed it applied to me.

  4. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    The ENFP dropped it, which was the truly perplexing thing about the whole situation to me. She was so worked up that she got me upset, then she ran away from it and acted like it never happened. I make no secret of the fact that I am sometimes socially awkward.
    She probably thought to herself some combination of "I should just let this go", "she's just socially retarded, so I shouldn't let myself get worked up about this", and "maybe she really didn't mean anything by it, and I'm just projecting subconscious intentions/motivations onto her", and so decided to let it go. It would still potentially benefit future interaction to have that talk with her.

  5. #1035
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    She probably thought to herself some combination of "I should just let this go", "she's just socially retarded, so I shouldn't let myself get worked up about this", and "maybe she really didn't mean anything by it, and I'm just projecting subconscious intentions/motivations onto her", and so decided to let it go. It would still potentially benefit future interaction to do what I recommended.
    While we still interact and are friends, I've limited it to VERY lighthearted conversation. I don't want the drama. I'd rather be an acquaintance than to upset her further.

  6. #1036
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    That's very interesting. I consider myself low drama but I do want to talk about things that upset me. I HAVE to, actually, to close friends. I'm driven to.

  7. #1037
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Red face

    I hate* ENFPs because they're so awesome.



    *Hate being the NT rationalization way of avoiding saying something which might make us uncomfortable, such as "love."
    Likes Alassea liked this post

  8. #1038
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    That's very interesting. I consider myself low drama but I do want to talk about things that upset me. I HAVE to, actually, to close friends. I'm driven to.
    While I don't always know the right way to react, I do try to listen when people are upset. I tried to listen in the scenario I described. I withdrew from her because she dropped the discussion, not because she voiced that she was upset by my words. It was when she dropped it that I saw it as drama rather than attempting to work things out. I will also sometimes withdraw from ENFPs temporarily because the emotional responses can be draining to me, even though they are sometimes good for me to experience. I do realize that not everyone operates in the same manner as myself. A big part of why I am here is to learn from other types and understand why I sometimes have difficulty relating to certain types of people. I appreciate the ENFPs who took the time to respond, and I do see that my word choice wasn't the best even if I didn't mean any harm in what I said.

  9. #1039
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, that's exactly what I thought when I read @skylights' account about her father.

    My first thought: "What an asshole. Fucking shitbag INTP fathers."

    My second thought: "Does he really think that's not offensive/wrong. Is he just emotionally retarded/unaware (of himself and/or others)?"

    My third thought: "I could see myself saying that to my child, but only if I wanted to cause deep emotional distress (which would, in all circumstances I can imagine, have ulterior [positive] effectual motives). If I said it, I would be well-aware of the effect, and not follow it up with something as dumb as 'you're too emotional, get over it'. It would almost certainly be in an effort to try to get them to wise the fuck up, and causing an emotional shock to their system, in order to provoke a 'waking up' moment, would be its intent, so I just don't see how her father's combination of statements could ever be a justifiable thing to say. Well, unless you're an emotional fucking retard."
    Frankly, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that he's emotionally retarded. I've pretty much told him this. He's pretty much agreed.

    In his defense, of course, he also has a lot of strengths and is generally a brilliant man, and short of episodes like this, has been a good father. He has always been a better teacher than emotional supporter. I've been lucky to have an ESFJ mom, in that respect.

    I mean, I might say "you're an embarrassment" to someone too, but I'd follow it up with "when you act like _____". I hesitate to say never in general, but I can honestly never see myself saying that about someone's character. Even people I don't like. I told him, after he said it, that it hurt me so deeply I would never be able to forget it. That kind of statement would usually cue a "you're too sensitive" from him, but that time he actually paused and he did seem to have some recognition that maybe that wasn't the best thing to say to his kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    it makes me wonder whether it's really the Fi user projecting things onto the INTPs' comments, or the INTP being so fucking clueless about their own subconscious emotions/intentions that they say genuinely offensive things spurred on by subconscious emotions/intentions that they are simply completely out of touch with/unaware of/do not understand.
    I wonder about this too, actually. INTPs are so attuned to hard logic and their general processing is so detached from emotional reasoning that I think sometimes the emotional implications of what they say is mostly lost on them. I don't mean this in a pejorative way, just neutral. I know I say some Fe-stupid things sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    I happen to think the guy is quite intelligent. I suppose the weird thing to me is that the ENFP would think I'd hang out with them if I didn't like them. If I have a negative opinion of someone, I don't become their friend. The funny thing to me is that every ENFP who has heard this scenario has read something negative into it, while other INTP friends who have heard the scenario thinks the ENFP was overreacting and projecting. It's a very odd disconnect to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Yes, I read that, thanks. You understand that the act of putting both in the same sentence was what prompted examination, right?

    The construction of the sentence is the issue ... it looks and sounds like you're putting those two elements TOGETHER.
    Right - this is exactly it. I don't think there's really "projection" on the ENFP's part - I think that to us it seems like we're just following your pattern to the obvious conclusion. You say A, C... we end up at E. Except E is kind of offensive, so we react, and then you say we're overreacting. It's incredibly frustrating to be on our end of it, honestly. It feels like you've set us up so that you can shoot us down. Why would you set up that pattern if you didn't want me to react?

    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    The ENFP dropped it, which was the truly perplexing thing about the whole situation to me. She was so worked up that she got me upset, then she ran away from it and acted like it never happened. I make no secret of the fact that I am sometimes socially awkward.
    Hard to know. Ask her. Maybe she just decided it wasn't worth arguing over at that moment, and that she had other things to think about. Maybe she realized that you say awkward things sometimes and it's not a big deal.

  10. #1040
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I wonder about this too, actually. INTPs are so attuned to hard logic and their general processing is so detached from emotional reasoning that I think sometimes the emotional implications of what they say is mostly lost on them. I don't mean this in a pejorative way, just neutral. I know I say some Fe-stupid things sometimes.
    I think this is accurate. I generally need time to get away and think about what the emotional implications of something might be. I'm often completely surprised when someone gets upset with me because I've said something stupid or off the cuff that came out in a way that was completely unintended. I've gotten a lot better as I've aged, but it still happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Right - this is exactly it. I don't think there's really "projection" on the ENFP's part - I think that to us it seems like we're just following your pattern to the obvious conclusion. You say A, C... we end up at E. Except E is kind of offensive, so we react, and then you say we're overreacting. It's incredibly frustrating to be on our end of it, honestly. It feels like you've set us up so that you can shoot us down. Why would you set up that pattern if you didn't want me to react?
    Trust me, it's frustrating on my end, too. I think that part of the problem is that there are a ton of NTs in my chosen career, I married another INTP, and most of my friends are NTs. I think what would often roll off of my back or the backs of my NT friends are often not perceived the same way by NFs, and it gets confusing sometimes. I've gotten a whole lot better as I've gotten older, but I still have moments where dumb stuff comes out of my mouth and I'm completely unaware of why it's dumb until I can bounce it off of someone else or I have time to sit down and process it.

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