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  1. #991
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    For example, I have an ENFP friend who is married to a police officer. Her husband teaches a group of teenage kids who want to eventually become cops. The discussion went off topic and into clubs. I said, "I was in the debate club. No one in the club became a cop." She hears, "I think that debate club kids are really smart, and kids who want to become cops aren't intelligent enough to be a debater." I was quite taken aback, especially considering that her husband and I are friends. This led to a very long discussion about her feelings, which she prompty dropped when she became distracted.
    Frankly, I would be wondering too what made you say that. What Ne jump did you just make here? What connection are you trying to imply? And why even say that ... you realize this is a conversation-stopper because it doesn't seem to make any sense at all unless you're trying to say something without "saying" it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Likewise, everything is connected. In a big pattern of information. I mean…perhaps you are/were completely innocent and ignorant of ‘the seemingly commonly held opinion’ that ‘all cops are working-class, donut-eating, idiot-assholes’ (Juice's illustration)…and ‘all members of the debate club go on to become part of the 1%’ < --- but I’m going to go out on a limb here and say she probably didn’t think you were. Like I stated earlier…she will be naturally inclined to assign a reason to why you said what you said (there are no accidents)…and that reason will be based-off of the patterns she sees around her…and the pattern of behavior she has come to expect from you. And by the latter I mean…if anything you have ever said before (lol)…hints at some sort of ‘intellectual superiority’…it will have an accumulation effect…and she will react to that (as well)
    That would be the background machination for me as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Frankly, I read negative things into your comment as well. My first thought was, "She's saying cops are stupid." I really don't think it's the fault of the ENFP. I hear this kind of stuff from INTPs all the time (Fi users projecting onto INTPs' comments things that [supposedly] aren't really there), so much so that it makes me wonder whether it's really the Fi user projecting things onto the INTPs' comments, or the INTP being so fucking clueless about their own subconscious emotions/intentions that they say genuinely offensive things spurred on by subconscious emotions/intentions that they are simply completely out of touch with/unaware of/do not understand.
    I've concluded it's primarily the latter (at least 60-70% of the time).

    INTP's seem to very much underestimate the effect of emotion (their own and others) in decision-making. As a listener, when I hear something that makes my ears perk up, like that little sentence shared so kindly by herbpixie, I have found it useful to take a step back and clarify what the message really is before jumping to defend. Sometimes that defuses it too ... when an INTP realizes their little snarky "comment" didn't go unnoticed ..... and may now cause a social problem.

    When they hit their forties, many INTP's seem to be really exploring Fe, IME. My brother is a fine example of it; you'd think this "people stuff" was a whole new world ... He even called my Mom for Mother's Day this year ... what a shock!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #992
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I've concluded it's primarily the former (at least 60-70% of the time).
    FYP

  3. #993
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Frankly, I read negative things into your comment as well. My first thought was, "She's saying cops are stupid." I really don't think it's the fault of the ENFP. I hear this kind of stuff from INTPs all the time (Fi users projecting onto INTPs' comments things that [supposedly] aren't really there), so much so that it makes me wonder whether it's really the Fi user projecting things onto the INTP's comments, or the INTP being so fucking clueless about their own subconscious emotions/intentions that they say genuinely offensive things spurred on by subconscious emotions/intentions that they simply are completely out of touch with/unaware of/do not understand.
    I do not have this problem with any other type, which may be why you hear this a lot from INTPs. I'm a bit older, and I'm female, so I have a better handle on my emotions and intentions than some INTPs. I also find it weird that, without knowing me or the other person at all, you assume I'm subconsciously judging rather than believing me when I gave the reason behind why I followed the debate comment with the cop comment. I happen to think the guy is quite intelligent. I suppose the weird thing to me is that the ENFP would think I'd hang out with them if I didn't like them. If I have a negative opinion of someone, I don't become their friend. The funny thing to me is that every ENFP who has heard this scenario has read something negative into it, while other INTP friends who have heard the scenario thinks the ENFP was overreacting and projecting. It's a very odd disconnect to me.

  4. #994
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    Here is an ENFP who everyone hates that ruined Star Wars!

  5. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbpixie View Post
    I do not have this problem with any other type, which may be why you hear this a lot from INTPs. I'm a bit older, and I'm female, so I have a better handle on my emotions and intentions than some INTPs. I also find it weird that, without knowing me or the other person at all, you assume I'm subconsciously judging rather than believing me when I gave the reason behind why I followed the debate comment with the cop comment. I happen to think the guy is quite intelligent. I suppose the weird thing to me is that the ENFP would think I'd hang out with them if I didn't like them. If I have a negative opinion of someone, I don't become their friend. The funny thing to me is that every ENFP who has heard this scenario has read something negative into it, while other INTP friends who have heard the scenario thinks the ENFP was overreacting and projecting. It's a very odd disconnect to me.
    I'm not sure if you noticed, but I'm an INTJ.

  6. #996
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    FYP


    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #997
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Frankly, I read negative things into your comment as well. My first thought was, "She's saying cops are stupid." I really don't think it's the fault of the ENFP. I hear this kind of stuff from INTPs all the time (Fi users projecting onto INTPs' comments things that [supposedly] aren't really there), so much so that it makes me wonder whether it's really the Fi user projecting things onto the INTPs' comments, or the INTP being so fucking clueless about their own subconscious emotions/intentions that they say genuinely offensive things spurred on by subconscious emotions/intentions that they are simply completely out of touch with/unaware of/do not understand.
    No, no, ENFPs are good with reading every human OTHER than INTPs, obviously. That makes the most sense. I bet it's because INTPs are super human. And they are all just like Einstein, too.

  8. #998
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Frankly, I would be wondering too what made you say that. What Ne jump did you just make here? What connection are you trying to imply? And why even say that ... you realize this is a conversation-stopper because it doesn't seem to make any sense at all unless you're trying to say something without "saying" it.
    I explained that earlier in the thread. It wasn't a Ne jump. It was a statement of clarification. In other words, we were no longer discussing cops. The conversation had moved to clubs. The previous speaker had combined the two topics.

  9. #999
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Frankly, I read negative things into your comment as well. My first thought was, "She's saying cops are stupid." I really don't think it's the fault of the ENFP. I hear this kind of stuff from INTPs all the time (Fi users projecting onto INTPs' comments things that [supposedly] aren't really there), so much so that it makes me wonder whether it's really the Fi user projecting things onto the INTPs' comments, or the INTP being so fucking clueless about their own subconscious emotions/intentions that they say genuinely offensive things spurred on by subconscious emotions/intentions that they are simply completely out of touch with/unaware of/do not understand.
    No, no, ENFPs are good with reading every human OTHER than INTPs, obviously. That makes the most sense. I bet it's because INTPs are super human. And they are all just like Einstein, too.

  10. #1000
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm not sure if you noticed, but I'm an INTJ.
    Nope--sorry. Thread exploded, and I'm trying to catch up. My point stands, though. It doesn't happen with any other type with me.

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