[MBTI General] Do you think ESJs are good boyfriends?

[SillySapienne]

An update:

Why this ESJ is capturing my attention and affection...

He is just "good".

He texted me that he was done with dinner and that he was gonna call me when he got in bed, and two minutes later, guess what?

He called!

Due to my so-called "daddy issues", general problems with men, and abandonment issues, having a guy like this, who DOES NOT PLAY GAMES, is incredibly healthy for both my self-esteem as well as for curing my misandrist tendencies.

On the phone, he asked me how my day was, what I was currently doing as well as what my plans were for tomorrow, after hearing me out, (I have to wake up at 9 to start and finish a paper and then go to a 7.5 hr lecture tomorrow), he told me he'd bbm me (blackberry messenger me), when I got up. Awww, so friggin' cute!

He also explicitly stated how much he wished I were with him, how he misses me, and how much he can't wait to come back to LA on Monday to see me.

Hhahaahaa, he's even alluded to the fact that he wants to marry me, and told me that he's not looking to just fuck around but rather wants to have a girlfriend, i.e. me.

When I was in New York, he said the cutest thing, he was like, I don't want this messing up the relationship status he has with both my sister's boyfriend (his best friend), and my sister, (his very close friend), and I was like, Dude, don't even stress, there's nothing you could do to me that would ever jeopardize your relationship with them, and then he said...

"That's not what I'm talking about, what I'm saying is what if you broke my heart and I was unable to see you, how that would be weird"

To which I just responded with a huge grin, and gave him a hug, and told him, he's too much of a sweetheart for me to ever break his heart.

Even when he's being so-called "mushy" he's still hella masculine, which I love.

And you know what?

I'm like a hardcore weirdo, who has enough weird in her genes to freak up an entire nation, I don't need another weirdo in the mix, I got that so-called base covered.

His "normalcy" and consistency are quite refreshing.

I dunno, we'll see how this goes.

 

[Drezoryx]

^ can identify with everything you are saying. even ill note how things go now in my own relationship btw whats your ennegram type?

 

[SillySapienne]

I'm a type 4w5, I'm pretty sure he is an 8w7.

I have always 8s!!!

 

[BerberElla]

The guy I'm seeing tested as estj 5 times because I refused to see the estj in him lol, I can see the esj, but not the T.

I thought maybe I could get passed the lack of mental stimulation since the sex is certainly great enough, I thought I could just turn to my internet pursuits to fill in those gaps, however it's not for me.

I intend on ending the whole thing tonight because I need the guy I;m with to be interesting enough to be with, otherwise aside from good sex, what else would there be to do together?

That's just me though, and of course that's him, maybe a different esj would be a little bit more interesting for a long term thing.

 

[Drezoryx]

@CC ah great 4w5, i've got 5w6 but not with any consistency. which site did you take it on?

@berberElla thats sad to hear. did u try any common S/N hobbies with him? its going to break his heart but they recover quickly watch out for yourself

 

[PeaceBaby]

Berbs, slumdogT is right, did you try doing (for example) some outdoors activities, hiking, canoeing etc.? I find nature very gratifying to my spirit, and he loves the physical aspect of those activities, so it is certainly worth the effort to find the things that you both enjoy, even if they aren't exactly for the same reasons. There's plenty of overlap we've been able to find. Plus he's a great dad so it's been a pleasure raising our family together.

After all, there is no ... completely perfect partner. Just as we are not perfect. You could find a guy who's all "Ne stimulating" let's say, but he shags around with three other girls a month on you. You need to decide what your priorities really are.

ESTJ's offer:

loyalty
dependability (to a fault)
faithfulness
service as acts of love (my hubs does the laundry, does the dishes after dinner etc)
honesty
groundedness

I won't presume to know what's right for you, but I encourage you to think twice on that at least.

Plus, at this point in our lives, he is developing a side to himself that is softer, more "emotional" and I see in him new qualities that have evolved over the years. As we all grow. LOL, he's finding my Te can be rather more ... outspoken.

And still, come on, good sex 20 years from now? That's not something to take lightly either !

 

[Udog]

Hhahaahaa, he's even alluded to the fact that he wants to marry me, and told me that he's not looking to just fuck around but rather wants to have a girlfriend, i.e. me.

How long have you guys known each other? In a thread of a 1,000,000 positives, this is the only thing that may concern me. If you guys have known each other for awhile, though, I take it back.

Besides that issue, there is definite potential between the two of you! SJ-NFP is a very, very complimentary pairing as long as one doesn't try to change the other.

(For me, it often turns into a more business like pairing. However, I'm pretty sure one of my exes was ESFJ, and the chemistry and relationship dynamic were amazing.)

 

[SillySapienne]

After all, there is no ... completely perfect partner. Just as we are not perfect. You could find a guy who's all "Ne stimulating" let's say, but he shags around with three other girls a month on you. You need to decide what your priorities really are.

SO TRUE!!!

ESTJ's offer:

loyalty
dependability (to a fault)
faithfulness
service as acts of love (my hubs does the laundry, does the dishes after dinner etc)
honesty
groundedness

Minus intellectual/creative stimulation, these are precisely the things I need in a man!!!

I live with my mother, and in many ways she has been my "primary partner" for my entire life. She is both an ESFJ, and a relatively traditional Korean woman/mother.

This may sound weird to others, but she loves to both cook and clean for me as what you have called "service as acts of love".

She has always done these things for me to allow me to focus on whatever thing I love at the time, my work, and most importantly, my academics!!!

Although she is not the sharpest tool in the shed, we still eat together, go shopping together, watch movies etc. And at this point in our lives, live quite healthfully and happily together.

Sorry, the point is this...

I am used to cohabiting with a person whom I do not intellectually connect with, and there are multiple ways to bond besides just intellectually.

My relationship with my now deceased father, (an INTP), was GOD-AWFUL!!! All he ever did was lecture at me, read, or verbally assault me, or my other family members. He was quiet and kept to himself 80% of the time, but 20% of the time, i.e. when he actually spoke, he was a heartless asshole.

One of my biggest fears is ending up with a guy who is just like my father!

And, believe you me... I am attracted to quiet, reserved, brilliant, aloof men.

But meh, I don't know.

And still, come on, good sex 20 years from now? That's not something to take lightly either !

You know what, you're right!

I am currently a psych. major, and I take a lot of classes on sexuality and relationships, and apparently having good sex with your partner is actually important!!!

I, only ever having fallen in love with a man with whom I've had mediocre sex with always assumed that sex was not important.

That all I had to do was, "fake it to make it", and that would be enough.

Apparently, sex is an important relationship glue, so to speak.

Anyway, 20 years into a relationship where you are both still having phenomenal sex, my hats off to you!

@CC ah great 4w5, i've got 5w6 but not with any consistency. which site did you take it on?

A couple of sites, but primarily I read a book.

How long have you guys known each other? In a thread of a 1,000,000 positives, this is the only thing that may concern me. If you guys have known each other for awhile, though, I take it back.

Besides that issue, there is definite potential between the two of you! SJ-NFP is a very, very complimentary pairing as long as one doesn't try to change the other.

(For me, it often turns into a more business like pairing. However, I'm pretty sure one of my exes was ESFJ, and the chemistry and relationship dynamic were amazing.)

I met him two years ago, and only got acquainted with him like, a year ago.

I don't really try to change people, the only thing I am ever guilty of is trying to help make people happier, more fulfilled selves, but, I know that this guy will always care about money, basketball, security, friendships, and family. That's cool with me.

Oh my...

Thank you so much for your feedback.

Hahahaha, my biggest fear right now, is one of embarrassment, what if when he comes back in town in a couple days, I see him and I'm like, o noes, I can't go through with this!!!

And then this will further the stereotype of the ENFP as being flighty.

I think there is a point behind this.

Which is, in general, am I pursuing the wrong type of guy?

Once again thanks so much for your feedback!!

With love,

-CC

 

[SillySapienne]

Sorry for such a self-indulgent thread, guys, but I am really grappling with this issue right now.

That issue being my relationship issues with men.

Not to get all Freudian, but as I alluded to in my previous post, I kinda much rather be with someone who resembles my mother than my father, shockingly, I know.

My mother is all heart, and no brain, whereas my father was all brain and no fucking heart!

I know this sounds extreme, but it is true.

I think my father's IQ was/is something like 70 to 80 points higher than my mother's.

My mother truly is cognitively deficient, (she suffered mild brain damage as a toddler).

But, she loves me, is extraordinarily loyal, kind, selfless, hard-working, "solid", and giving as a person. And we have a deep bond together, not just as mother and child, but as something more.

I feel tempted to start an entire new thread, but I will just post my feelings on the subject here.

How many of us on this site have relationship issues?

For me, it would seem that every guy I have been with who has treated me with so much love, adoration, kindness, and *attention*, I have eventually pushed away, validating my actions by thinking he wasn't smart enough, or that he's too feminine.

And then there has been those guys I perpetually pursue who are more or less lone wolves, who enjoy their own company a teensy bit more than my own.

My ISTP has told me he sees us being together forever but that right now he is way too young to be anything but, as he put it, "a selfish asshole".

Also, as of last year, he officially does not have a home and is living as a bi-continental nomad. He also wants to get a reversible vasectomy because he is that fearful of accidentally having a kid. :rolli:

I am the only girl he's had sex with in the past four years, and I would *never* have a baby both me and my partner did not want!!!

This ISTP is also an only child, and not very close with his parents! He talks to them like once every two weeks and sees them for a total of three days a year!!! (He has the financial means to see them a whole hell of a lot more than this). He's even told me I matter more to him than his parents, and he definitely sees me way more than he sees them, but I digress.

I just wish I never had to deal with romantic relationships, period!

Why can't I become a happy dog-lady spinster!

Why do I have such a desire to one day have a (non-dysfunctional) family of my own!

I've read so many books, been to therapy, and really try hard to embrace my relationship issues, but they continually resurface, again and again.

Is something fundamentally wrong with me?

I admit that I am a very eccentric girl, but I'm kind, and have a good heart, I don't want to do anyone no harm.

Sometimes, I feel like I am being sadistically punished by the fates for having had an abusive relationship with my father!!!

What the fuck!!!

I know I know how to love, but do I know how to love *men*?

And do I know how to be loved by them?

Sorry, thanks to anyone who is reading and or participating in this thread.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Strawberry fields,

-CC

 

[Fidelia]

I dated an ESTJ for 4 1/2 years. I can say there were some great things about the connection.

We really didn't understand each other, and communication did become an issue. We also had very different emphasis on what mattered to us in life. We reluctantly decided that we couldn't make a go of it in the long term. The biggest differences were him seeing things for what they are and me seeing them for what they could be, which had implications for our work and for many areas of our lives. He also had difficulty letting people close to him and so would often put the most emphasis on the least important and superficial relationships, while ignoring the few people (sister, two long term friends, sometimes me) who were in it for the long haul.

However, all of the pluses that have been mentioned were certainly there. I was big picture, he took care of practical details. We worked well together on several big projects, as long as I kept in mind his need for having things decided or small details taken care of and he kept in mind that how people were treated was a priority to me. I liked his curiosity, awareness of surroundings, extroversion, abilities as a host, drive to achieve, accumulation of skills, creativity, and attentiveness. He planned creative and fun dates, was take chargey, socially popular and fun to be around. He was adventurous, loyal, a reader and an interesting person.

Oh! I just read the part that you said about him alluding to wanting to marry you. This same thing happened after one month of knowing my ESTJ. In retrospect, he wanted his future settled, he had gone through a lot of changes, he was at a time in his life where he wanted to settle down, but I think he was a little impulsive without having looked at the logistics of things working first. I (rightfully) had qualms about starting the relationship and allowed myself to be talked into it (this kind of thing doesn't happen for most people even once in a lifetime etc). I think for a long time he was not willing to see where our problems were and if I didn't bring them up he'd have been pleased to ignore them. However, I don't think that usually works well for NFs. After reading more about ESTJs I have seen several places where it talks about them being fairly decisive and impulsive decision makers. In his previous 7 year relationship, he moved from Toronto to live with a girl halfway across the country in a rural, remote town that he had know for a month and a half. All of his close friends sat him down to try to talk sense into him but he insisted it was meant to be. Later he said it was just that they both wanted someone to settle down with and it could almost as easily have been anyone else. Most of their relationship did not work well either, but like with me he hung in for a long time. Just a caution there.

At the end, he broke up quite suddenly and unexpectedly with me in an effort to deal with our impending departure from each other. He then regretted his decision, but having changed course stuck with it, which resulted in some mixed signals. He also acted very out of character towards the end because he was not dealing well with leaving the place he'd been five years, the uncertainties of moving to a new place and breaking up with me, as he really had loved me. He started partying with people much younger than him till 5 or 6 am (maybe partly in response to what everyone else around him was doing too and wanting to fit into social norms) and acting very irresponsible and rejected many of the friends he had known since the beginning of the five years there in favour of newer, younger casual acquaintances.

 

[Edgar]

Hey CC, is your father an ISTJ?

 

[SillySapienne]

A.) My father is deceased.

B.) My father was an incredibly unhealthy INTP. The most concrete thing my father liked to do was read.

 

[mwv6r]

An ENFP friend of mine dated an ESTJ -- they had tons of chemistry and she was craaazy about him but it went down in flames, eesh. While that may not be representative of every ENFP+ESTJ pairing, I would proceed with caution.... I know personally that as an NF I would have trouble dating an ESTJ just cause I need a lot of physical affection and expressions of love, which ESTJs for all their good qualities are not the best at that.

Do you know if he's ESTJ vs. ESFJ?

ENFP+ESFJ, I'm curious about that one. Haven't seen it in real life that I know of. Of course, I have trouble identifying ESFJ males. I'm sure they're out there but I'm not spotting them for some reason. I picture ESFJ men in a relationship having a similar desire for control as ESTJs, but probably giving their partners more positive strokes...?

 

[SillySapienne]

This guy is ridiculously passionate, expressive, complimentary, and affectionate.

He is not the best looking guy in the world, but he has something I like to call, "swagger".

This whole thing, I think, is kind of a test, a test on whether or not I want to be with an I or an E.

Es, like me, like and desire good company!

I am so tired of stalking solitary wolves.

I want to be stalked for once!!!

I don't think ESJs have the ability to control me, if anything, the ones I've gotten involved with kinda viewed me as something different and special, they knew that if they pulled some possesive shit on me, I'd bounce.

OH, EPIPHANY!!!

I think that this guy, like my ESJ ex, I view(ed) to some extent, "lower" than me. And hence, (yes, I am totaly fucked in the head), when, and if, their *behavior* towards me was anything less than supreme, I would happily pack my things and go.

In other words, I have an uber-air of confidence about me.

Conversely, I am sick and tired of being treated poorly by guys I deem highly, get it?

I'm such a gene-whore, when I should really be focusing more on how a guy *acts*, and treats me.

Whenever I meet a guy, I think in the back of my head, I wonder what kind of babies we'd make together, but why would you want what you'd think would be an awesome baby with a dick of a dad?

Hahahahaha, I'm totally blowing up my spot, but ya'll know I'm nuts, already.

Ain't no shame in my game. (Eh, maybe there's a little shame )

 

[INTJ123]

I know an enfp and estj couple that are engaged. I predict a divorce in maybe 5-10 years, he will cheat on her eventually, he talks about other hot girls a lot. There are always issues that they can't get over because both are unwilling to change. There is this over masculine tone to the estj which comes across as pretty much sexist, he openly admits he wants her to be a housewife and pretty much subservient to all his wishes (I really think it's an SJ thing, I think some SJ women don't mind being treated that way too, gender role thing). And there is an individualistic freedom and equality tone to the enfp that resents that. I really don't think it's the best match. The overall vibe of their relationship seems kind of shallow, it's almost like prostitution, he gives stuff like material things and security(financial), and she gives sex and babies, cooks and cleans or wutever and obeys him.

 

[SillySapienne]

^ I soooooo wouldn't be down for that!

:/

 

[Udog]

Hey, who knows if this is right for you or not? There's only one way to find out - you'll learn more about yourself in the success or failure than you ever would thinking about it inside your head.

The only thing you owe the guy is honesty. Make the nature of the relationship clear so that he doesn't fill in the blanks himself. My concern is that he's already expressed his desire to marry you, so he will push for that type of relationship far more quickly than you may wish. That's the role he wants to cast you into, and you will actively need to communicate you aren't ready to fill that role.

And to clarify, the reason ENFPs can be perceived as flaky is that they talk like they are 100% committed and interested, and then bail. It's perfectly okay to date this guy and see where it goes - just be sure to be honest with him about your intentions. It's only flaky when you fail to do something you promised to do.

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ Like Udog says, the only way in is through. Honesty is the cornerstone of true communication, and communication is the key to relationship success, so just be yourself and see where this leads you.

 

[Edgar]

OH, EPIPHANY!!!

I think that this guy, like my ESJ ex, I view(ed) to some extent, "lower" than me. And hence, (yes, I am totaly fucked in the head), when, and if, their *behavior* towards me was anything less than supreme, I would happily pack my things and go.

In other words, I have an uber-air of confidence about me.

Conversely, I am sick and tired of being treated poorly by guys I deem highly, get it?

I'm such a gene-whore, when I should really be focusing more on how a guy *acts*, and treats me.

Whenever I meet a guy, I think in the back of my head, I wonder what kind of babies we'd make together, but why would you want what you'd think would be an awesome baby with a dick of a dad?

Hahahahaha, I'm totally blowing up my spot, but ya'll know I'm nuts, already.

Ain't no shame in my game. (Eh, maybe there's a little shame )

So you like guys to worship you, but those that do tend to be on the busted side, and you like strikingly handsome guys, but those that are tend to treat you shitty...

Ever consider finding yourself an equal? I think the best bet for a long lasting relationship is finding yourself someone who neither looks down on you nor puts you on a pedestal, instead, someone who views you as being on the same level.

Why would you want someone to worship you anyway? That's insecuirty talking.

I mean, God knows I have a high opinion of myself, but if I would ever marry, I would want a partner, not a minion. I wouldn't intertwine my life with anyone on any other terms.

 

[SillySapienne]

Well, it is extremist, I admit, but if I can't seem to find a happy medium, shouldn't I settle down with a guy who worships me rather than a guy who treats me like shit?