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  1. #21
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    But at a fundamental level, most STJs simply aren't seeking to understand others. The desire to understand a diversity of opinions and views and connect through those things is really an NF thing. So how do you get around that? The STJs that I know have no interest in discussing what they already know to be true in their own minds.
    Heh, well I was making my point in the assumption that you were in the perfect world.

    In reality, if an ENFP was working with an STJ and they conflicted so much to where it hindered their work, then I imagine the STJ would seek the understand how the other works for the sake of work. I'd say the same applies to relationships.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #22
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Heh, well I was making my point in the assumption that you were in the perfect world.

    In reality, if an ENFP was working with an STJ and they conflicted so much to where it hindered their work, then I imagine the STJ would seek the understand how the other works for the sake of work. I'd say the same applies to relationships.
    Yes, if the STJ values the relationship(work or personal), I would think that to be true too. Maybe ENFPs are just more likely to value relationships, and so we get burned more easily.

    See, in a work environment, I'm actually good with STJs. I haven't worked for anyone but myself in over 4 years, but when I was working with STJs, it was ok. I've never had issues with people in a work environment, of any type.

    It's more or less in my personal life, and mainly with certain family members, that I have issues.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Heh, well I was making my point in the assumption that you were in the perfect world.

    In reality, if an ENFP was working with an STJ and they conflicted so much to where it hindered their work, then I imagine the STJ would seek the understand how the other works for the sake of work. I'd say the same applies to relationships.
    Nah. I work with an STJ who is insane. She's not a supervisor, but she pretends like she is. She goes around bullying people, and trying to drag people into odd cleaning jobs that she's thought up, even to the point of taking them away from the job that they were actually hired to do. She insists that her way is right, because that's how her daddy raised her. I'm not exaggerating. She actually says because that's how her daddy raised her. She's basically a monster unless you can:

    A) Stand up to her (I do, she had the audacity to touch me once, and that was that)

    B) Agree with her wholeheartedly and embrace her OCD love of deep cleaning when you're actually supposed to be doing other things

    The upper management has had to place her in a different department because she's such an overbearing, narrow minded nuisance. There are people at my job who say they want to stab her.

    I'm sure she's an unhealthy example, of course.

  4. #24
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Nah. I work with an STJ who is insane. She's not a supervisor, but she pretends like she is. She goes around bullying people, and trying to drag people into odd cleaning jobs that she's thought up, even to the point of taking them away from the job that they were actually hired to do. She insists that her way is right, because that's how her daddy raised her. I'm not exaggerating. She actually says because that's how her daddy raised her. She's basically a monster unless you can:

    A) Stand up to her (I do, she had the audacity to touch me once, and that was that)

    B) Agree with her wholeheartedly and embrace her OCD love of deep cleaning when you're actually supposed to be doing other things

    The upper management has had to place her in a different department because she's such an overbearing, narrow minded nuisance. There are people at my job who say they want to stab her.

    I'm sure she's an unhealthy example, of course.
    Holy CRAP that is an unhealthy example of an SJ! I've actually talked to SJs who have insisted on something being right because of how they are raised and how that was always how it's been done.

    But that's good that she isn't near you anymore xD, since they moved her to a different department.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Yes, if the STJ values the relationship(work or personal), I would think that to be true too. Maybe ENFPs are just more likely to value relationships, and so we get burned more easily.

    See, in a work environment, I'm actually good with STJs. I haven't worked for anyone but myself in over 4 years, but when I was working with STJs, it was ok. I've never had issues with people in a work environment, of any type.

    It's more or less in my personal life, and mainly with certain family members, that I have issues.
    Bolded- Definitely.

    Because in a work situation, you're all there for the same reason- to make your money and do your job. I've never had issues in the work place either just based on type.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    But at a fundamental level, most STJs simply aren't seeking to understand others(at least not the ones I know personally). The desire to understand a diversity of opinions and views and connect through those things is really an NF thing. So how do you get around that? The STJs that I know have no interest in discussing what they already know to be true in their own minds.
    Aside from not wanting to understand others I have learned that I have to prove them wrong. It works with my dad. From there you can open there mind, but you still have to traverse carefully through Fi also. We were working on his lawn mower and he was certain what I said wouldnt work. We got home and in within minutes I did what he spent forever trying to do. I had to show him instead of discuss, then I had to get past the I didnt think that would work and the feelings of being proven wrong without doing what they do to you when they one up you. My dad will say "I thought I taught you better" when he one ups me. I explain why I thought it would work when I one up him. Thats tertiary Ni vs tertiary Fi. Tertiary Fi can be cocky when they one up people, its very frustrating

  6. #26
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Because in a work situation, you're all there for the same reason- to make your money and do your job. I've never had issues in the work place either just based on type.
    Exactly. That, and the roles and expectations are clearly define. And further, you can get away from people at work so much more easily by just getting a new job or changing a department. Heck, you can even complain and watch the tide turn in your direction, or at least find some balance via mediation. In your family life, it's like you're stuck unless you abandon the people you love altogether or move far far away.:sad:

  7. #27
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    ESTJs can be hard-especially if they are women. They tend to be very indirect and girly and when extreme, can be very boxed in mentally.

    ISTJs kick ass all around honestly-I can tap into their tert Fi and tickle them silly and then use Te to earn thier respect.

    ISFJs are by far the worst. They are very kind and sweet, however they cant seem to think very logically as they are trying to keep everyone happy. When confronted they then respond very poorly to direct discussion and instaed respond in a very passive agressive fashion.

  8. #28
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Aside from not wanting to understand others I have learned that I have to prove them wrong. It works with my dad. From there you can open there mind, but you still have to traverse carefully through Fi also. We were working on his lawn mower and he was certain what I said wouldnt work. We got home and in within minutes I did what he spent forever trying to do. I had to show him instead of discuss, then I had to get past the I didnt think that would work and the feelings of being proven wrong without doing what they do to you when they one up you. My dad will say "I thought I taught you better" when he one ups me. I explain why I thought it would work when I one up him. Thats tertiary Ni vs tertiary Fi. Tertiary Fi can be cocky when they one up people, its very frustrating
    I can totally relate to the bolded Poki, with the exception of the fact that attempting to prove the STJs in my family wrong does absolutely nothing but start epic arguments that have occasionally have lasted for upwards of a full day. It leaves me drained and feeling pretty sick, really. For me, I don't actually need to be right, just heard and understood.

    My mother constantly attempts to one up me as well. Just recently I drove to go visit her 300 miles away to support her in a project that she had gotten involved in. She bitched at me because I brought my dog, who is 20 pounds. She told me, I should've known not to bring my dog to her "too good to sit on the couch" McMansion.<---Ok, she didn't exactly say that, but that's how she acts. She told me to board my dog next time I come visit. Nonetheless, she used to bring her dog to my house all the time. It burned me so badly because obviously, I already pay to come see her in gas and time, and I usually buy food and occasionally cook when I go there.

    She also has tried to force my son to pray, even though she knows we're agnostic. And she woke up last Sunday morning, when I went to see her last, and was telling my son something about hell. I was furious! I don't even know how to handle it. It's beyond me.

  9. #29
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    ENFPs usually don't hate anyone really. It is just that they can easily get frustrated with people. (it is quite observable)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Ne is a purely internal process... and you lead with it... and you're an extrovert.

    It's very confusing it seems to you guys.

    Yeah, this is true. Intuition is internal, yet we are extroverts, kind of a weird combo. This is exactly why many ENPs are very introverted as well.


    "She also has tried to force my son to pray, even though she knows we're agnostic."


    Hahaha, I love this, many people do it, trying to force faith, so ironic, so ridiculous. You can't force people to find religion or God, that is so contradictory to the teaching of every religion I have ever heard of.

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