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[INFJ] INFJ physicians around?

workaholicsanon

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I am an INFJ and a physician, just finishing up residency now. I have an interesting story that really reflects how our personality type impacts our learning and working style as well as the specialty that we thrive best in.

Anyway, as a med student, I was all about the "save lives, save the sickest people." I guess I didn't use enough sensing function in making my decision, and ended up choosing anesthesiology for my specialty. Before you start anesthesiology you have to do internship as an internal medicine intern for a year. LOVED internship--lots of connections with patients, lots of discussion with colleagues working towards the common goal of doing as much as possible for the patient, lots of harmonious teamwork. I also got to teach med students. There were so many rewarding moments; my job gave my life so much meaning.

Well, then i went on to start my anesthesia residency. WHOO!! vigilance vigilance and more vigilance; even though I got along well with everyone, I always felt an undercurrent of an adversarial dynamic between anesthesia and surgery, between the OR nursing and anesthesia (nursing sucks up to the surgeons at the expense of anesthesia), it was like it was me vs. everyone else. Even the surgeons had their "team" and worked together as a team. Patient is asleep, and even when they wake up they still have meds on board that make them forget and act loopy, everything was pushed to be rush rush rush but at the same time I was trying to be an ultra-perfectionist so as not to kill anyone and to do justice to the patients. so long story short, boy was I stressed. I started wondering why i went to med school in the first place, that i would have been happier flipping burgers at the nearby Wendy's. My work was no longer meaningful to me in the least. a few months in, I started feeling physically ill, wiped out, depressed. My favorite parts of my job were working in the preop eye clinic, where I actually got to bond with the patients for like 10 min (but then never to see them again) and when the patient was waking up.

After about 4 months of that hell, I started working on transferring back to internal medicine, took me another 2 months to actually make the switch. Even though internal medicine has had its long hours, 30 hour shifts, etc. I have to say, i was NEVER as stressed in internal medicine as I was in anesthesia. I have been soooo much happier and again find my job meaningful and my life worthwhile.

At one point after I made the switch, i read the MBTI preferences for certain medical specialties, and it said infj tends to be happiest doing internal medicine or neurology. Anesthesiology apparently is better preferred among sensing types. Makes a lot of sense, in retrospect.

Things to keep in mind, going through the world of medicine as an INFJ:
--you are going to be evaluated by a lot of extroverted sensing types. They will not always understand you, nor will they be interested in trying to understand you. They judge you by whatever you tell them, and they want you to take initiative in telling them what you did, what you thought, etc, selling your ideas. Doing all this is unnatural for the INFJ and REALLY saps our energy trying to. I just came to terms with the fact that some of my evaluators will just underappreciate me and I can live with that, as long as I did justice in caring for my patients and in teaching my interns/medstudents.

--as a corollary to the above, I have tended to sacrifice efficiency/quickness for the sake of spending time listening to the patient, making sure I thought thoroughly through my patient's complaints and what might be going on with them, and making sure I addressed as much as I could for them. It just made my job more meaningful to me, to do so. I think this was the INFJ in me. The side effects of this are as follows:

a) your hours will be MUCH longer than those of your non-INFJ peers, because the workload is geared for superficiality and lack of caring. I was ok with the longer hours because I hated being rushed and I wanted my work to be meaningful for me. However, towards the end of residency I am feeling quite burnt out and needing a few years of "me time" to recharge. I also ended up gaining quite a few pounds because on most of my harder months I would really have no time to work out, and when i did have a day off, I would need it to recharge from the energy sapping ES world of medicine.

b) your non-INFJ/INFP evaluators will call you slow/inefficient and give you criticisms of this in your evaluations. I could care less; my work is about the patient not about them or me.

c) the people you supervise might be annoyed for their longer hours and for the perfection you seem to demand from them (and you will get in trouble for causing them to break work hour rules). As I progressed in residency, I adjusted my leadership to first explore how my "underlings" approached their medical practice style, and if they were the kind who would rather do things superficially and leave early, I let them as long as they did their responsibilities. If they were similar to me, being detailed, spending lots of time with the patient, addressing all their issues, and loving it, then I would back off and just let them do their thing but still supervise and remain available if they want me to help (i.e. I wouldn't be hovering over their heads rushing them out). Obviously, I appreciated those who fell in the latter category much more and it showed in their evaluations.


--you will be slightly different from most of your colleagues. Your oral presentations wont be the most eloquent ever, will tend to be full of details that others dont want to hear at which point you wont know what to tell them. Oh well, I lived. People will not always want to hear you out because of the lack of eloquence, but if not they end up regretting it because they missed out on some crucial details and some valuable outside-of-the-box thoughts. I have worked with some very eloquent people and I admire them so much, but I've come to accept the fact that i will never have that talent.

--your notes will be AMAZING. I've always gotten rave reviews about my notes. Basically the way I see it is, documentation is crucial for the following reason: letting other members of the team (primary team and consultants) as well as any future doctors taking care of the patient, know exactly what is going on with the patient, what your thoughts were, and what you did for the patient, in order to help them continue that good work, come up with new ideas, or help in their decisionmaking. What you say lasts in people's memory for like 2 minutes, and not everyone will be present to hear that. What you write is for posterity and for all to see.


So in summary, yes INFJs are doctors. Sure there are challenges in getting through the ES world of medicine and medical training, but ultimately i think it's easier for us to persevere despite those challenges because we dont care so much about "fitting in" and impressing our evaluators. We do this for a purpose, to add meaning to our lives through good patient care. And as long as we do justice to this purpose, we are happy. Just be careful about picking an appropriate medical specialty for yourself.
 

workaholicsanon

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The Grand chameleon sure id say if you're so determined. move into bureaucracy and influence health policy on a countrywide scale rather than one patient at a time! its less painful less upfront and wider reaching. ofcourse if u want hands on experience there are ways other than going through the entire mbbs md facs and f*cks lol

Actually I'm starting to consider this type of thing, like impacting medicine through research, or wide-ranging impact through a public-health type of role (e.g FDA/CDC physician, etc). I never envisioned myself being a no-name primary care physician in the community changing the world one patient at a time. Too insignificant of an impact.
 

sunnyraining

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Apr 28, 2008
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That was a great post(s) workaholisanon and in my opinion a very accurate insight into the world of medicine for the INFJ :)
 

Drezoryx

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workaholicsanon@ the details of the profession you've provided are totally invaluable! the op out here is hugely lucky to get your feedback i'm sure. its unbiased, from the same personality type and based on real experience.

thanks too for validating some of my original intuitive feelings :) btw guys totally unrelated but im going to come on national tv as a legal panelist among many experts commenting on recent changes to education policy by the government of india impacting high schools in india and the political ramifications of that! im super excited about that :D
 
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@workaholics: thanks (wow!) for a very insightful post. just what i was looking for. it's the infj & medicine 101! really appreciate it! hopefully a lot of other people will benefit from the post as well (and not just one person ;)

..i know what you mean about not feeling the "impact" being great enough when just treating "one patient at a time." i wonder why this is... i feel the same thing rather strongly, and it's keeping me somehow away from medicine... (and keeping me still in wider work fields for exerting idealistic influence, like social work, writing, activism—with their own attached problems, as expanded upon above.) but really, why is that? why are infj's like that? how can changing someone's life be "too insignificant"? must be some visionary thing...

anywho, thanks to all for their invaluable insights! and slumdog, good luck with your panel discussion!
 

Drezoryx

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ah thanks intuitiveadrenalinejunkie ! its done, what a sensory experience!! :)
 

mochajava

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@Workaholics - fabulous post! I'd want you as my doc and not some crazy ES who won't give me the time of day!

@OP - what about public health? Lots of different skillsets you could use to help people and improve their health / save lives.
 

nozflubber

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I am an INFJ and a physician, just finishing up residency now. ......

Awesome post. No wonder our medicine sucks in this country: the system categorically alienates/rejects INFJs, who make the best natural healers, in several ways.

I've always suspected I ought to try to get medical care from Catholic or Muslim doctors/hospital systems exclusively, because then I can be more certain of why they got into medicine in the first place. Now I guess I know it's not a wild suspicion. It's 'cuz they are NOT those ES types mentioned that were lured into medicine for all the wrong reasons and systematically fucked up a very delicate practice. So i guess for me, i'll either be administering potential doctors MBTI or asking if they are a healer of God :)
 

Immaculate Cloud

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Awesome post. No wonder our medicine sucks in this country: the system categorically alienates/rejects INFJs, who make the best natural healers, in several ways.

I've always suspected I ought to try to get medical care from Catholic or Muslim doctors/hospital systems exclusively, because then I can be more certain of why they got into medicine in the first place. Now I guess I know it's not a wild suspicion. It's 'cuz they are NOT those ES types mentioned that were lured into medicine for all the wrong reasons and systematically fucked up a very delicate practice. So i guess for me, i'll either be administering potential doctors MBTI or asking if they are a healer of God :)

How about moving to China or Taiwan or Singapore, some place where you can integrate Western and Traditional Medical Systems? I know this probably sounds 'way overboard'. But why not? Oh well blame it on this: I recently read about the Kallawaya healers, an itinerant group of healers living in the Andes who after the 'Exposition Universelle' of 1889 were asked to publish a book documenting their herbal knowledge and ultimately, saw their patrimony plundered by unscrupulous industrial groups...
 

Lily flower

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I don't think that it's the S/N that will be as much of a problem. I will warn you, however, that medical school and especially residency are brutal (and I mean excessively BRUTAL) on anyone who is a feeler. And as an INFJ myself, I know how easy my feelings get hurt. The medical field is dominated by T's who see no problem in daily yelling obcenities, threats and belittling comments at the residents. You have to have an iron shield around your heart to survive with your emotions intact. I know this from close personal experience. If you have ever seen the TV show House, many of the doctors actually treat people worse than he does.
 
Last edited:

Random Ness

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The weird thing is I took a paid career test to see what fields I should go into and health sciences was at the top of my results. But now...I'm scared. :shock: Oh well, medical school isn't for everyone.

@Workaholics - fabulous post! I'd want you as my doc and not some crazy ES who won't give me the time of day!

Exactly! I hate doctors who are rushed, explain things way too scientifically but are too much in a hurry to sufficiently answer your questions, and get a procedure done whether you're in pain or not. The best experience I've had with doctors is a dermatologist and nurse who sat down and explained things in detail and asked several times if I had questions, stopped a procedure to numb me because I was in too much pain, and asked if I was okay throughout the procedure to make sure I wasn't in pain. :wubbie: I wish all doctors and nurses were like them. They had very attractive qualities that patients like.

If you have ever seen the TV show House, many of the doctors actually treat people worse than he does.

I'm scared again. :shock:
 

mochajava

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I want to know how feelers can get through hostile environments. My last work environment was like that -- getting yelled at a lot for stupid things, and it basically made me shut down. I did not function effectively at all, and I got too burnt out from withstanding the toxic environment that I didn't learn as much as I could have. Any ideas? Think I should start a thread on this?
 

Careberryz

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Sep 30, 2010
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INFJ Medical Student

Hey all. This is my first time posting anything anywhere besides facebook, so I feel a bit shy :p. I heard about MBTI a long time ago but I've only really understood my INFJ self for the last year or so after my friend re-introduced me to MBTI and I've been acting sort of like an MBTI prophet, trying to convince everyone I get a chance to interact with, friends and acquaintances.

I am responding to this thread because my day job is a third year medical student at a very "old school" medical school on the east coast, and boy have I had a rough time for a long time, and I know I'm still in the midst of it all, can't really see the end of the tunnel yet.

So I'll start from the beginning. Why did I go into medicine? In all honesty, for a mix of reasons, good and "bad", their order of importance constantly shifting according to where I am in life and how I'm feeling. (1) I've always wanted to do some nameless big and great something for the world and humanity yadda yadda. Well you get the pictures. I thought medicine would fulfill my humanitarian instincts. (2) I love interacting with people on a meaningful basis. Sometimes I hate them, and I need more than my fair share of solitude, but god I love people as a whole. (3) Science/medicine is interesting. Not interesting enough to be the only subject I study day in and day out, unfortunately, but interesting. (4) Ah, prestige and respect from others. Oh yeah, baby. I am a bit bipolar in that I both love myself and hate myself simultaneously, and there is something about the prestige of medicine that really fuels/fueled my ego (not sure if my ego's really being fed at all at the present, but maybe a little from, like, the little old lady at the store who automatically likes you when she accidentally finds out you're going to be a doctor). (5) My parents but mostly my mom encouraged it. Not going to lie. (6) Enough money to live comfortably/more than comfortably. Of course! Though honestly, there must be an easier way to get into this salary bracket than this.

My academic career, in terms of how well I did, has sort of been up and down. Did well in public high school. Got into a college with good name. College was seriously hard. Took a punch, though tamed by grade inflation. Didn't have high enough grades to get into med school. Did a special post-bac program, got really good grades that year, got into med school. First year of med school pretty easy. Second year ridiculously hard, inundated with information and didn't study very hard.

About not studying very hard...you know, I'm not sure if I'm just particularly a lazy INFJ or if I developed bad habits early on, but I spent many years sort of cramming and then forgetting. I did best on my SATs, which required just "cracking" the test to excel. The MCATs were a little harder--you actually had to know some concepts. And the USMLE, ooo, not so hot. The more "specialized" the exams got, the more my ass got kicked. Call me crazy, but it's not really until now, in my clinicals, when I truly and clearly understand that I need to know sh*t to help people. I thought I would somehow learn everything I needed to know to be a decent doctor through osmosis or even magic, but f*ck, it requires sweat and blood and tears. And I don't think I invested enough of those bodily fluids into learning what I needed to know before I got into the clinic. And now, even when it's obvious how important it is that I know stuff, it's hard for me to work SO HARD for SO many hours at work before coming home to work some more??, and I have so much to make up for from years of nonchalance regarding my academics. Whew.

So that being said, I'm still surviving, doing the best I can, I have a couple of NF friends here and there in med school, an ENFJ, an INFP, no INFJ though, and a bit of commiseration here and there helps, though only to a certain extent. As an INFJ in the hospital, I run into some problems: So I love people, but I'm introverted, so I can't spend too much time with people without going crazy, and all you do at work is interact with people. My N is raging, so my sensing function is way way under-developed. You have no idea how long it took me (and still takes me) to look up lab values and such. I'm not very logical or objective (sometimes I fool people into believing I am because I SOUND logical/objective because I can speak with conviction), but the true a to b to c type of deduction, eh...not my strong suite. I think my J in combination with other aspects of my personality makes me more proud than some other NF types, so I abhor being at the bottom of the hierarchy, being so lost and confused all the time (even the ESTJs admit med school/residency is hard), being criticized unnecessarily, etc.

There's a lot more I could talk about, but I've procrastinated from studying long enough. One of the things I'm struggling with the most is what specialty to go into. Dare I ask are there niches in medicine where NFs are more heavily represented. Maybe psychiatry? It seems for most specialties, we are in the minority. Sigh, sigh, and sigh.

Are there other struggling INFJ med students out there? Does any of this ring true? What about INFJ physicians? Is there really a light at the end of the tunnel? And for any young INFJs thinking of going into medicine, hope this description of my experiences are helpful.
 

Random Ness

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And for any young INFJs thinking of going into medicine, hope this description of my experiences are helpful.

...as well as scary. I don't have the bad practice habits that you used to have, luckily, but the concept of med school still scares me. I sure hope you get through everything well!
 

King sns

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hey, im infj wondering about becoming a doctor... there are obvious things in the profession which appeal to me - however, i have some concerns with the rather strong Sensing aspect of the work detail...

so are there any infj's around who are doctors? and who can tell me how they experience it?

thanks a bunch!

hmm.. I think that an INFJ is a very great personality for a doctor. Being such a high stakes and involved profession, nobody is going to master it immediately. Those S traits that you need will naturally be obtained in med school. If you're a decent and intelligent person, I highly doubt you'll go around accidentally killing people due to "not enough s." Just take it day by day and you'll be surprised about how much you will step up to the plate when you need to. Doctors require a high level of N qualities as well as S qualities, so like I said, nobody will fit the bill immediately without some training.
 

King sns

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Hey all. This is my first time posting anything anywhere besides facebook, so I feel a bit shy :p. I heard about MBTI a long time ago but I've only really understood my INFJ self for the last year or so after my friend re-introduced me to MBTI and I've been acting sort of like an MBTI prophet, trying to convince everyone I get a chance to interact with, friends and acquaintances.

I am responding to this thread because my day job is a third year medical student at a very "old school" medical school on the east coast, and boy have I had a rough time for a long time, and I know I'm still in the midst of it all, can't really see the end of the tunnel yet.

So I'll start from the beginning. Why did I go into medicine? In all honesty, for a mix of reasons, good and "bad", their order of importance constantly shifting according to where I am in life and how I'm feeling. (1) I've always wanted to do some nameless big and great something for the world and humanity yadda yadda. Well you get the pictures. I thought medicine would fulfill my humanitarian instincts. (2) I love interacting with people on a meaningful basis. Sometimes I hate them, and I need more than my fair share of solitude, but god I love people as a whole. (3) Science/medicine is interesting. Not interesting enough to be the only subject I study day in and day out, unfortunately, but interesting. (4) Ah, prestige and respect from others. Oh yeah, baby. I am a bit bipolar in that I both love myself and hate myself simultaneously, and there is something about the prestige of medicine that really fuels/fueled my ego (not sure if my ego's really being fed at all at the present, but maybe a little from, like, the little old lady at the store who automatically likes you when she accidentally finds out you're going to be a doctor). (5) My parents but mostly my mom encouraged it. Not going to lie. (6) Enough money to live comfortably/more than comfortably. Of course! Though honestly, there must be an easier way to get into this salary bracket than this.

My academic career, in terms of how well I did, has sort of been up and down. Did well in public high school. Got into a college with good name. College was seriously hard. Took a punch, though tamed by grade inflation. Didn't have high enough grades to get into med school. Did a special post-bac program, got really good grades that year, got into med school. First year of med school pretty easy. Second year ridiculously hard, inundated with information and didn't study very hard.

About not studying very hard...you know, I'm not sure if I'm just particularly a lazy INFJ or if I developed bad habits early on, but I spent many years sort of cramming and then forgetting. I did best on my SATs, which required just "cracking" the test to excel. The MCATs were a little harder--you actually had to know some concepts. And the USMLE, ooo, not so hot. The more "specialized" the exams got, the more my ass got kicked. Call me crazy, but it's not really until now, in my clinicals, when I truly and clearly understand that I need to know sh*t to help people. I thought I would somehow learn everything I needed to know to be a decent doctor through osmosis or even magic, but f*ck, it requires sweat and blood and tears. And I don't think I invested enough of those bodily fluids into learning what I needed to know before I got into the clinic. And now, even when it's obvious how important it is that I know stuff, it's hard for me to work SO HARD for SO many hours at work before coming home to work some more??, and I have so much to make up for from years of nonchalance regarding my academics. Whew.

So that being said, I'm still surviving, doing the best I can, I have a couple of NF friends here and there in med school, an ENFJ, an INFP, no INFJ though, and a bit of commiseration here and there helps, though only to a certain extent. As an INFJ in the hospital, I run into some problems: So I love people, but I'm introverted, so I can't spend too much time with people without going crazy, and all you do at work is interact with people. My N is raging, so my sensing function is way way under-developed. You have no idea how long it took me (and still takes me) to look up lab values and such. I'm not very logical or objective (sometimes I fool people into believing I am because I SOUND logical/objective because I can speak with conviction), but the true a to b to c type of deduction, eh...not my strong suite. I think my J in combination with other aspects of my personality makes me more proud than some other NF types, so I abhor being at the bottom of the hierarchy, being so lost and confused all the time (even the ESTJs admit med school/residency is hard), being criticized unnecessarily, etc.

There's a lot more I could talk about, but I've procrastinated from studying long enough. One of the things I'm struggling with the most is what specialty to go into. Dare I ask are there niches in medicine where NFs are more heavily represented. Maybe psychiatry? It seems for most specialties, we are in the minority. Sigh, sigh, and sigh.

Are there other struggling INFJ med students out there? Does any of this ring true? What about INFJ physicians? Is there really a light at the end of the tunnel? And for any young INFJs thinking of going into medicine, hope this description of my experiences are helpful.

As a nurse I know that you just can't know everything right off the bat, you just can't. (I know doctor/ nurse- completely different profession, but both dealing with patient care.) For me it's easier to learn on a patient to patient basis. You can't possibly memorize everything that they teach you in school. I think it's easier to put the whole thing together and actually become knowledgeable when your beloved patients are at stake. In the moment, you just struggle through it- look things up, and really learn at the end of the day. I don't think this has much to do with your type. Of course, some types are going to have different natural strengths than others- BUT, everyone is going to have to do some struggling to become something great.
 

skylights

i love
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I want to know how feelers can get through hostile environments. My last work environment was like that -- getting yelled at a lot for stupid things, and it basically made me shut down. I did not function effectively at all, and I got too burnt out from withstanding the toxic environment that I didn't learn as much as I could have. Any ideas? Think I should start a thread on this?

the ENFP route: yell back, and then Ne your way out of the corner by demonstrating how the way you're doing things is actually better aligned with the way things should be done. :D

seriously though, for me, having a good friend or friends who i can talk to and who i trust to bolster me when things get rough is very helpful to me when i am in a high-stress situation. then i know that even if things are getting difficult, i can trust that person to listen to me, trust me, and help build me back up to fight again. having a friend inside the system who you can commiserate with is good as well - you can have your own contented "bubble" in the hostile environment. i also like thinking about how i can help change that environment.
 

Usehername

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Coming from a huge MD family where everyone went to medical school and then married a classmate, and then their kids are now in medical school, I can weigh in as an observer!

While I'm certain medicine requires both S and N, the xSxJ and xSxP MDs seem to be happier in their jobs than my xNxx MD relatives.

ISTJ and ISTP surgeon aunts are happy to live in the operating room (even after each having 4 pregnancies! can you imagine how much their bladders must have hated them?!). ESTJ, ISFJ, ISFJ, they're all satisfied with their jobs. ISFJ of my generation is in med school atm and happy.

HOWEVER,
My INTJorENTP (he's hard to type like Night) uncle very seriously tried convince his wife to OK him quitting his job and become a long distance trucker where he could listen to podcasts all day because he was deathly bored and swapped too many specializations, all of which required a lot of detail-oriented work and repetitive tasks that weren't challenging him.

His wife, my INFJ aunt, is a psychiatrist. She sort of shrugs about her career choice, and assures me that while it has its great moments, she's largely working the bureaucracy more than the patients. And gives the impression that she didn't exactly find a career where she could live her passion to the extent that she dreamed.

My INTJ uncle is a radiologist married to one of the surgeon aunts who never has to see his patients and has limited social skills; he seems to love his job.

ISTP kid of the double intuitive parents was premed and had the grades to get in, but chose to go another route because the life of an MD sucks. Her dad is still doing two weeks of night shifts as a highly ranked fellow because that is the life of a doctor. She eventually realized, presumably through her parents, that she wanted to be able to clock out and go snowboarding.


Basically, the relatives that do well with being a doctor have no lives outside of it and their identity highly invested in their career. The ones that were more socially and otherwise (e.g. musician) multidimensional struggled and didn't see the point of clocking so many hours at the same old thing. You're caught up in a giant bureaucracy. Though you can use intuition at times, mostly you are an (important!) cog in the system that prevents old people from dying a little quicker than they otherwise might.
 

Random Ness

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Basically, the relatives that do well with being a doctor have no lives outside of it and their identity highly invested in their career. The ones that were more socially and otherwise (e.g. musician) multidimensional struggled and didn't see the point of clocking so many hours at the same old thing. You're caught up in a giant bureaucracy.

o___________o
 
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