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  1. #41
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC View Post
    I'm really bored, so I thought I'd post this from the same book I used to post on the ENFP thread :P

    Tertiary Si: Find relief with introverted Sensing (INTP/INFP)
    They often enjoy activities like revisiting places they've been, ideas they've explored, and the history of their family, their organization, or even their culture. They collect detailed information about what interests them and may devote time to researching the past to build on what others have already done. They may be drawn to collect memorabilia or keep extensive records of activities and interests. They recognize familiar subtle sensory elements such as tastes, aromas, and spellings. In the physical world, they take comfort in familiarity. They may avoid or resist new experiences preferring to have new experiences match the old ones that were enjoyable.
    When Younger, they tend not to remember details or put much stock in expected results based on past experience. As they grow, they find they have acquired a rich storehouse of memories, and they learn to recall with accurate detail how something was before and will likely review the past to see what lessons can be learned from it. They often go from avoiding participation in traditions and holidays to genuinely enjoying these.
    Engaging in introverted Sensing can be unsettling and disruptive at times. They can give too much detail or become too focused on reviewing the past and what's established as valid, even if it is for lessons learned. Or they may end up collecting endless quantities of miscellaneous items that give them comfort in their familiarity but clutter their physical lives.

    Hope that's a good starting point!
    Average to unhealthy INFP also uses Si-tertiary to reinvent history to seem more positive than it was in support of their flagging self-esteem. For example, if there was an accident in which the INFP shared partial blame, the INFP may twist these past events to make it all someone else's fault. This may or may not be consciously calculating, as the INFP may really believe his or her version of the past really is what happened.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #42
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Average to unhealthy INFP also uses Si-tertiary to reinvent history to seem more positive than it was in support of their flagging self-esteem. For example, if there was an accident in which the INFP shared partial blame, the INFP will twist these past events to make it all someone else's fault. This may or may not be consciously calculating, the INFP may really believe his or her version of the past really is what happened.
    I do this as an ENFP...
    I've had to come to accept my memories are all at least partially fictionalized.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I do this as an ENFP...
    I've had to come to accept my memories are all at least partially fictionalized.
    I wonder who doesn't... I think this is a natural human reaction and everyone idolize memories one way or another. I don't see it that much Si related, although Si plays its part.

  4. #44
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inis Mona View Post
    I wonder who doesn't... I think this is a natural human reaction and everyone idolize memories one way or another. I don't see it that much Si related, although Si plays its part.
    I can't tell a story to somebody unless I write it down. Verbal communication has always been harder for me than written communication (in this case typed).
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  5. #45
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC View Post
    I'm really bored, so I thought I'd post this from the same book I used to post on the ENFP thread :P

    Tertiary Si: Find relief with introverted Sensing (INTP/INFP)
    They often enjoy activities like revisiting places they've been, ideas they've explored, and the history of their family, their organization, or even their culture. They collect detailed information about what interests them and may devote time to researching the past to build on what others have already done. They may be drawn to collect memorabilia or keep extensive records of activities and interests. They recognize familiar subtle sensory elements such as tastes, aromas, and spellings. In the physical world, they take comfort in familiarity. They may avoid or resist new experiences preferring to have new experiences match the old ones that were enjoyable.
    I don't know about other INxPs, but this analysis is absolutely incorrect in my case, especially the ones that are underlined. I've never been interested in the history of anything. I've been to places and never drawn to collecting souvenirs or records of stuff. I also have never had difficulty with throwing old things away. I get bored with the familiar - I need new small challenges at work, always want to discover new places to hang out, my curiosity pushes me to order new items on the menu in a familiar café, etc. I enjoy living in new countries, flying from place to place on my own, and without this kind of "thrill", I feel imprisoned. Other 3 INFPs I know are also very adventurous, experimental and fascinated by the unknown.

    When Younger, they tend not to remember details or put much stock in expected results based on past experience. As they grow, they find they have acquired a rich storehouse of memories, and they learn to recall with accurate detail how something was before and will likely review the past to see what lessons can be learned from it. They often go from avoiding participation in traditions and holidays to genuinely enjoying these.
    Engaging in introverted Sensing can be unsettling and disruptive at times. They can give too much detail or become too focused on reviewing the past and what's established as valid, even if it is for lessons learned. Or they may end up collecting endless quantities of miscellaneous items that give them comfort in their familiarity but clutter their physical lives.
    Well I can definitely identify with this part of the analysis. It is just so easy to recall past pains with exactly the same emotions, even ones from early childhood. It feels somewhat like Leonard Shelby in Memento, waking up everyday with the trauma that is like from just yesterday.

    Si surely gives me a hard time with relationships.
    .
    | | | If it is god who makes man, this is the devil finishing touches | | |
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inis Mona View Post
    I wonder who doesn't... I think this is a natural human reaction and everyone idolize memories one way or another. I don't see it that much Si related, although Si plays its part.
    Says the INFP.

    I for one don't reinvent history. I want to remember it just the way it was, blemishes and all.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #47
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    I don't know about other INxPs, but this analysis is absolutely incorrect in my case,
    I don't know if it's absolutely incorrect in general, but the description makes the tertiary Si sound like a list of INFP hobbies. It's pretty bad.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #48
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    Well I can definitely identify with this part of the analysis. It is just so easy to recall past pains with exactly the same emotions, even ones from early childhood. It feels somewhat like Leonard Shelby in Memento, waking up everyday with the trauma that is like from just yesterday.

    Si surely gives me a hard time with relationships.
    The quoted material, which originated on PerC, portrays Si as being the "memory" type. Memories are a form of internal or subjective sensing, but Si isn't about that per se. The Si is a feeling-sensation (versus feeling-emoting) type. What matters is how the Si function feels the memories. Nostalgia is an example of a feeling-sensation, so some of those memories will be closely bound up with nostalgia. THE DATA PROCESSED BY THE JUDGING FACULTY IS NOT ABOUT THE MEMORIES PER SE, IT'S ABOUT THE FEELING-SENSATIONS PRODUCED BY THEM.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #49
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Average to unhealthy INFP also uses Si-tertiary to reinvent history to seem more positive than it was in support of their flagging self-esteem. For example, if there was an accident in which the INFP shared partial blame, the INFP may twist these past events to make it all someone else's fault. This may or may not be consciously calculating, as the INFP may really believe his or her version of the past really is what happened.
    I don't think INFPs are consciously calculating about much. Maybe about making life easier for the next 5 minutes or the next day at most.

    Historically I've tended to assume too much blame for what's gone wrong (probably because as a kid things that went wrong seemed always "my fault" with ISTJ and ISFJ parents) and I've discovered over time that most people are happy to tell you what's "your fault" and let you carry as much of that weight as can be placed upon your back. An INFP who is trying to assign blame elsewhere probably intuitively feels that they shouldn't be shouldering as much weight as they are when they feel blame rightly lies in multiple places. I think trying to communicate this balance of responsibility seldom comes out in a Te or Fe polished manner and can look like an attempt to completely evade responsibility. Not to mention, no one likes to be told that they should rightly carry blame when they evaded carrying any themselves in the first place by giving it all to you, and you took it not realizing the unfairness of such a thing.

    (I may or may not be representative of my type in this regard, so consider my experience a single data point.)

    eta: I would say that me trying to make things look like I was less responsible definitely happened in my formative years though. Not sure if INFP thing or just a kid thing, trying to stay out of trouble with the parental units. And I do know as an adult, I hate things being my fault and sometimes would wish to evade responsibility, but again, not sure if INFP thing or human thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    I for one don't reinvent history. I want to remember it just the way it was, blemishes and all.
    For me, Si doesn't permit it to be analyzed in any other way than warts and all. I could wish for Ni to make a new context or "reality" for me, and I can try to tell myself a rosy story, but the vivid replay of events in my mind does not allow for much deviation from watching that reality-based movie in my head. It's the origin I think of the Fi - Si loop - we want to be able to rationalize things to come out better, but can't since Si doesn't have tons of wiggle-room for deviations from what really happened, new interpretations of "the real" are hard to come by, and we probably experienced the "bad thing" in an emotionally difficult way so we replay all those intense feelings over and over again.

    Now, that said, being idealists, INFPs can wish to make the present seem rosier than it is, and that can mean messy memories get recalled more fondly than the gritty real-life elements they represent. Rose-colored glasses and all. And we can certainly construct a narrative in the present-tense that white-washes the emotional components of the past to what we might wish they ideally were. But interiorly, Fi is a constant physical ping, a reminder of the truth of a thing, and we know at those times we are only fooling ourselves. But those kinds of loops can last a long time. Years even.

    Different than my ISFP friend. She forgets the "bad thing" so quickly and sometimes makes mistakes that are the same over and over again at the urging of Se in the present tense. Picking a certain type of man, etc. But once she does make an Ni shift, that old past is never replayed again it seems.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  10. #50
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I don't think INFPs are consciously calculating about much. Maybe about making life easier for the next 5 minutes or the next day at most.

    Historically I've tended to assume too much blame for what's gone wrong (probably because as a kid things that went wrong seemed always "my fault" with ISTJ and ISFJ parents) and I've discovered over time that most people are happy to tell you what's "your fault" and let you carry as much of that weight as can be placed upon your back. An INFP who is trying to assign blame elsewhere probably intuitively feels that they shouldn't be shouldering as much weight as they are when they feel blame rightly lies in multiple places. I think trying to communicate this balance of responsibility seldom comes out in a Te or Fe polished manner and can look like an attempt to completely evade responsibility. Not to mention, no one likes to be told that they should rightly carry blame when they evaded carrying any themselves in the first place by giving it all to you, and you took it not realizing the unfairness of such a thing.

    (I may or may not be representative of my type in this regard, so consider my experience a single data point.)

    eta: I would say that me trying things look like I was less responsible definitely happened in my formative years though. Not sure if INFP thing or just a kid thing, trying to stay out of trouble with the parental units. And I do know as an adult, I hate things being my fault and sometimes would wish to evade responsibility, but again, not sure if INFP thing or human thing.



    For me, Si doesn't permit it to be analyzed in any other way than warts and all. I could wish for Ni to make a new context or "reality" for me, and I can try to tell myself a rosy story, but the vivid replay of events in my mind does not allow for much deviation from watching that reality-based movie in my head. It's the origin I think of the Fi - Si loop - we want to be able to rationalize things to come out better, but can't since Si doesn't have tons of wiggle-room for deviations from what really happened, new interpretations of "the real" are hard to come by, and we probably experienced the "bad thing" in an emotionally difficult way so we replay all those intense feelings over and over again.

    Now, that said, being idealists, INFPs can wish to make the present seem rosier than it is, and that can mean messy memories get recalled more fondly than the gritty real-life elements they represent. Rose-colored glasses and all. And we can certainly construct a narrative in the present-tense that white-washes the emotional components of the past to what we might wish they ideally were. But interiorly, Fi is a constant physical ping, a reminder of the truth of a thing, and we know at those times we are only fooling ourselves. But those kinds of loops can last a long time. Years even.

    Different than my ISFP friend. She forgets the "bad thing" so quickly and sometimes makes mistakes that are the same over and over again at the urging of Se in the present tense. Picking a certain type of man, etc. But once she does make an Ni shift, that old past is never replayed again it seems.
    Based on the above, I would say you're the healthy INFP type. I'd already thought that about you anyway. But what I'm trying to do with the OP is to show that truthful statements individuals make about themselves cannot contradict what we stereotypically think about types. For example, if you've met a grouchy INFP, then that doesn't mean all INFPs are grouchy. If you've met a doormat INFP, that doesn't mean all INFPs are doormats. If you've met a heroic INFP, that doesn't mean all INFPs are heroic. The grouchiness probably means he or she has developed a personality or mood disorder. Unfortunately, many personality type descriptions include only the negative or morally ambiguous qualities of type and rarely the positive.

    As for being Idealists, that too can suffer from more-or-less lack of psychological health. 'Rose-colored glasses' is one of many defense mechanisms used to bury parts of experience, through selective memory or selective perception, that make INFPs emotionally discomforted.

    The tendency to cognitively distort experience in a self-enhancing fashion and see the world through rose-colored glasses is evident in other phenomena, such as how we are naturally inclined to be excessively optimistic about the future to counter the drudgery and pain of our current existence (Tiger, 1979). We also tend to remember the past in a selective way, favoring the positive experiences. For example, nondepressed students underestimate the frequency of negative feedback in their recall (Nelson & Craighead, 1977). From all this it follows that mental health can be conceptualized not as the absence of cognitive bias but the presence of a skewed positivity bias (Beck, 1991; Beck & Clark, 1997).
    (The American Journal of Psychoanalysis, Vol. 64, No. 1, March 2004 ( 2004) PSYCHOLOGICAL DEFENSE MECHANISMS: A NEW PERSPECTIVE, Brad Bowins.)

    "But interiorly, Fi is a constant physical ping, a reminder of the truth of a thing..." If only that was always true, but it can't speak for everybody because even INFP's perceptions can be so distorted by Si tertiary that they fail to notice the difference between true and false memories.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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