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  1. #1
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Default The INTJ Fi Demand

    This is going to be an odd topic because it's about the tertiary and it's hard to nail that sucker into place. I can't quite tell if I'll be over-stating the case, or under-stating it, or choosing drama because the very simplicity of the tertiary makes it call out for overblown expression. Nonetheless...

    It seems like it might make sense, the idea of the supreme pragmatist having a quite simple, but rigid moral code. It seems we are for the most part quite permissive, but at the core there's definitely some rules about what other people can and cannot do with respect to us. And when those lines are crossed, the person who crossed the line IS WRONG!! In a complete and quite encompassing way, that person is known to be wrong, quite wrong, and will be treated as such. I don't think we particularly seek revenge, for that often takes too long and exhausts the demand for simple moral rectitude. Rather we excise people, remove them from our consideration. Or we aim to.

    The INTJ Fi Demand is that others will know our brand of right from wrong or they will not be considered objects of our true concern.


    What say you guys?






    Disclaimer: I really couldn't tell which section to post this in. If there is an INTJ Demand that We Be Respected and its source is the tertiary, then making it available for open discussion will automatically provoke some defensiveness. So, should I choose a potentially safe though demanding haven where there might be hugz too, or should I choose the cold hard light of other NT assessment knowing full well that they have their own simple-minded, likely unacknowledged feeling demands making then about as expert on feeling as I am? So I said, screw it, whatever, post.

    Signed,

    K. Pantywaist.

  2. #2
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    And then I discovered I'd posted it in the NT forum and couldn't delete it and move to the NF forum. Alas, cruel world.

  3. #3
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Moved to NF Idyllic.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #4
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post

    It seems like it might make sense, the idea of the supreme pragmatist having a quite simple, but rigid moral code. It seems we are for the most part quite permissive, but at the core there's definitely some rules about what other people can and cannot do with respect to us. And when those lines are crossed, the person who crossed the line IS WRONG!! In a complete and quite encompassing way, that person is known to be wrong, quite wrong, and will be treated as such. I don't think we particularly seek revenge, for that often takes too long and exhausts the demand for simple moral rectitude. Rather we excise people, remove them from our consideration. Or we aim to.

    The INTJ Fi Demand is that others will know our brand of right from wrong or they will not be considered objects of our true concern.


    What say you guys?
    This sounds accurate on at least some level. Outwardly, I don't really hold people to any moral code, but internally I do measure them against my own standard of morality. Actually, I'm always surprised to find that people think I'm very judgmental of their lifestyles (I didn't think they knew!).

    But I feel like Fi also has softer, different demands because of it's childlike nature. Maybe that's just me? I feel like my Fi has a sort of fondness for nostalgia and the familiar.

    Oh, and here's a hug
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  5. #5
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I've mostly seen it manifest as them accusing their opponent of "immaturity." The idea of basing an arguments validity on the "maturity" of the person making it is very, very Fi.

  6. #6
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    If I understand correctly, the INTJ Fi demand will make itself most strongly felt when the situation requires that you use your E, and your Ni doesn' wanna. So, it'll turn to tertiary Fi for support against your Te, and your crass, barely-processed Fi material will come spewing forth: on the one hand volatile subjective experiences of strong emotions, and on the other hand idiosyncratic demands of a personal moral code.

    But that's just one interpretation.
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

  7. #7
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SciVo View Post
    If I understand correctly, the INTJ Fi demand will make itself most strongly felt when the situation requires that you use your E, and your Ni doesn' wanna. So, it'll turn to tertiary Fi for support against your Te, and your crass, barely-processed Fi material will come spewing forth: on the one hand volatile subjective experiences of strong emotions, and on the other hand idiosyncratic demands of a personal moral code.

    But that's just one interpretation.
    Hm, see the idea of tertiary temptation makes sense to me, but I've never been able to observe it in myself. Not to say it doesn't happen to me, but I really couldn't describe it well.

    I think I read somewhere that tertiary Fi was characterized by dismissing an idea or situation because it it "impure" and belongs to other people, therefore making it not the INTJ's fault.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rhapsody's Avatar
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    I'm not sure this is what you're talking about, but here I go with some anecdotal stuff anyway:

    My mom is an INTJ and she used to have very rigid expectations about how she thought others should treat her. She's mellowed out a lot in recent years, but in her own words, she used to be very unforgiving. If someone offended her (she had no tolerance for people teasing her), or disrespected her, or if she thought someone was using her (she always thought people were using her even when they weren't) then she'd, at best, have an angry outburst, and at worst she'd cut off all contact with the other person. I've seen her throw temper tantrums (literal temper tantrums) when she thought someone had crossed the line with her. (I have a friend who has an INTJ sister, and her sister also does the temper tantrum thing.) And if my mom cuts someone off, she always leaves it up to the other person to reestablish the relationship; she never reaches out herself, and from what I can see on the outside, she never seems to care that she's lost them.

    In general, my mom used to be very black and white. Basically what you said here:

    And when those lines are crossed, the person who crossed the line IS WRONG!! In a complete and quite encompassing way, that person is known to be wrong, quite wrong, and will be treated as such.
    Although she's quite flexible when coming up with solutions to say, fixing the VCR, when dealing with people, they were either on her good side or in the shit hole.

    One of my best friends is also an INTJ, and she has extremely EXTREMELY strong morals and gets worked up into a Batman-like righteous rage whenever she sees other people violating those morals. She's always talking about how she hates humanity because of all the horrible things humans do to each other (and yes, really, she's a tested INTJ, not an NF!) I swear, one day she's going to become a vigilante.

    (Also, I didn't mean this to be an anti-INTJ rant! I love INTJs, and my mom and my friend's sister are the only ones I know of who seem to be a bit on the crazy side.)

  9. #9
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody View Post
    One of my best friends is also an INTJ, and she has extremely EXTREMELY strong morals and gets worked up into a Batman-like righteous rage whenever she sees other people violating those morals. She's always talking about how she hates humanity because of all the horrible things humans do to each other (and yes, really, she's a tested INTJ, not an NF!) I swear, one day she's going to become a vigilante.

    (Also, I didn't mean this to be an anti-INTJ rant! I love INTJs, and my mom and my friend's sister are the only ones I know of who seem to be a bit on the crazy side.)
    Lol! I love this.

    I try to keep my Batman rage under control, but I've been known to get a little self righteous. (And the cutting people off thing, 100% true for me)
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  10. #10
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I thought being self-righteous or holding people to moral codes was a (negative) NF thing?

    I've never seen INTJs as having any purity concerns... they often seem content to be rather crass about things, and to tolerate such from others.

    I can see it manifesting as selfish demands or criticisms of a person's lack of willpower, but hardly an actual moral code.

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