• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Fi] The INTJ Fi Demand

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Ok, I need one of you INTJs to say something that offends me quick so I'm not feeling so hot under the collar... :blush:
 

Uytuun

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,633
MBTI Type
nnnn
I can't help you, I just saw an IFP in action on TV and I'm all goo-ey and romantic now.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Can o' Worms time:

In tertiary position a function provides relief. One uses it to energise and replenish oneself, particularly if an auxiliary function project needs some help to keep going. (One may also use the tertiary to sabotage oneself, to give up support for the auxiliary and make oneself feel better about falling back into the dominant function.) So, for INTJs, one has "Yes, keep on going, this is the right thing for you to do" or one has "OMG! This is disgusting and these people are awful, get out while you can!"

Well... yes, so... that means there's some kind of demand for introverted feeling authenticity. If it's not Fi and it's not authentic, the role of relief is shaken badly, so we've got to be sure. And it's a simple-minded kind of surety demanded too. One just has to know! It has to feel right!

It turns out then, for me, that I won't trust extraverted feeling.

I can think I should, and I can try, and I can see Fe users doing things that are important to them. But I can't see it as real or motivational. If I have to make a decision, I cannot do it based on extraverted feeling concerns, because I will think myself to be wasting time or killing a project.

I suppose that one day pragmatic concerns will teach me to respect this thing I don't recognise, especially if I want to work with or manage people, but....


Well, who knows. Tomorrow is another day.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
*smiles*

Try turning to that part of your Fi that says : every way leads to Rome.
Meaning: everyone has their own way of going about things, including Fe-users. Judging them for using their path instead of yours, should not sit well with Fi either, and considering the fact that you can see the results they yield and the joy they bring themselves, your Fi should recognize it as a valid method, even if it is one not preferred by you.

Look at the benefits of Fe over Te. And be honest to yourself. You may get things done more efficiently, but they will get things done with the goodwill of people, meaning that *next* time, they'll get things done more quickly, as people will be more likely to respond to them than to you (if you use pure Te to accomplish things).

Your Fi may not like the way they go about it, but it will have to recognize the validity of another approach as well as be willing to stay openminded to it (even if it is not your cup of tea). Same thing for your Te: it should recognize that their method, in a way, is more efficient than yours, in some situations.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'm sure you're right.

Except for one point.

My sense of feeling right isn't independent of doing right--choosing an action and causing something to happen. And I don't mean doing right as decided by others. I mean, to use the shorthand, doing Ni/Te and doing it well... and, God help me, finishing it off with Se too.

I choose a direction and decide a task, and at that point people are in or they're out. The task has already been checked by me as Fi-approved, so I'm in. And everyone else? Well, if they don't want to cooperate, according to my pre-MBTI understanding of the world, this would be their stamp of Fi-DIS-approval, so they're out and I shouldn't bother them anymore unless I think they've missed something.

And actually, if people don't need to be coddled throughout some project, if when they say they're in, they stay in, because they want the task to succeed, then they're to be trusted with further projects. People who need to hold the project hostage to their sense of relationship, they're asking for more than a salary and the opportunity to work. They're harder to trust a second time around.


But then, is there ever going to be some environment where such simple-minded purity exists? Perhaps I shall make a practice og hugging colleagues and looking deep into their eyes. "I love you, man," I can tell them. "Let's get to work!" And if there's some butt slapping and innuendo, well, I'm sure I can lead a few people on for a while, anyway.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Grin...cute, very cute. Lousy reason not to follow up on people though :alttongue:

Yes it is more work, but people who feel acknowledged and validated in their way of working, tend to be more productive and hence, more efficient. And yes..maybe they should not be on the project if they cannot work according to *your* work ethics, however...what if they happen to be brilliant and an essential part of the project, yet have a very different work ethic. You're kinda stuck then, aren't ya?

Learn to value that everyone has a different way of going about it...and most of the time, that's a good thing ;)
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
We are of course assuming that somehow I am the boss and somehow in control of the project. The real nightmare scenario comes before the project starts, before goals and conditions have been established, before people have put in their facsimile of agreement to cooperate. That's when everyone starts running their own versions of dreaming happiness and what everything must mean.

Alternatively, the truly real nightmare would be attempts at intimacy.



(Disclaimer: only I shudder. All you loving couples may proceed.)
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
LOL...deja vu..I've had this conversation earlier today already :D
 

INTJ123

HAHHAHHAH!
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
777
MBTI Type
ESFP
well, to other types we intj's are percieved to be about as moral as infj's. other types meaning sensors mostly. I've had conversations where they would compare us to others as if we are similar in our moral codes of conduct. And even though we do cuss, it wasn't enough for them to say that we do at all, his ex GF said we never cuss or something.

I think intjs can tolerate or look the other way towards a certain amount of negativity without intervening, it's just natural. Negative energies are a part of life as much as positive. The worst thing I know now is NO energy at all, meaning to ignore something or someone, aka silent treatment... that is why some people keep coming back for more abuse to their abusers, because it's better than being alone to them.
 

The Decline

(☞゚∀゚)☞
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
780
MBTI Type
?
Enneagram
5w4
Fi :heart:

Complements NT nature so well...
 

Two Point Two

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
200
MBTI Type
INTJ
Re first post:

I can certainly relate. For someone of a temperament that often seems quite cynical and harsh, I relate a lot to the idealistic side of things. My morality tends to be quite simple and forgiving (mercy over justice any day), and is something that is ever-present, if at a reduced awareness to other aspects of my life. I attribute this to tertiary Fi.

And I do have a tendency to sort of...write people off, sometimes. Certain acts that I deem to cross the line can taint my image of a person ever after. It's something I actively resist, because a part of what I take to be moral is the recognition that there is no such thing as a purely evil person; generally, everyone has their own moral perspective and I should try as hard as possible to understand their act from their own framework.

So, while I have this tendency, I resist it in real life cases. It's a lot easier in fiction. I love fiction with all kinds of moral grey zones, but sometimes, a character just does something that makes me say 'that character is evil,' and I'll often think of them that way thenceforth.

I definitely think that INTJs tend to have an internal moral code that is extremely significant to them. I know that I have mine, and I will not act against it. It makes me stop to move worms from the footpath to the grass after rain, or to flip beetles right-side-up when I see that they have become upside-down and can't fix this themselves. I'm not sure how far it extends, but I do frequently do things because I take them to be morally necessary, despite the fact that, intellectually, I don't believe there is any such thing as objective morality.

'NFs of the NTs' - that sounds about right.
 
Top