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  1. #11
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I thought being self-righteous or holding people to moral codes was a (negative) NF thing?

    I've never seen INTJs as having any purity concerns... they often seem content to be rather crass about things, and to tolerate such from others.

    I can see it manifesting as selfish demands or criticisms of a person's lack of willpower, but hardly an actual moral code.
    INTJs are the NFs of the NTs

    But seriously. You use your tertiary Ti a fair amount, right? You're human (presumably) and need to function via both thinking and feeling. Doesn't make you an NT. Generally speaking, INTJs are pretty human and most of us do make use of our Fi.

    As for moral codes, if you haven't realized that INTJs have them, you need to spend some more time with us. It's not a "oh my goodness don't say that kind of joke you might offend someone" moral code, it's more about principles.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  2. #12
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I thought being self-righteous or holding people to moral codes was a (negative) NF thing?

    I've never seen INTJs as having any purity concerns... they often seem content to be rather crass about things, and to tolerate such from others.

    I can see it manifesting as selfish demands or criticisms of a person's lack of willpower, but hardly an actual moral code.
    Really? I've always seen INTJs as a little inter-personally terse (bordering on what most would consider rude), but not crass. I've always thought that they seemed to be a fairly principled bunch.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #13
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I thought being self-righteous or holding people to moral codes was a (negative) NF thing?
    That's because of our F, which leads to the OP's question: what happens when INTJs' tertiary Fi demands to be expressed?
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

  4. #14
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    I'll write a longer post another day, and therefore, to state the short version of it:

    - It causes me to want to 'purify' my emotions/intentions by my idealistic internal standards.
    - An inflexible sense of morality... like Batman's or Christian Bale's character in 3:10 to Yuma.
    - Like Poppy, I only expect myself to live up to them.
    - Yet can be dismissive of people who hold the opposing morals. (A long time ago.)
    - Used to be very black and white as Rhapsody's mom was.
    - Indulging in self-criticism when the moral code is not met.

    - Sometimes whimsical, volatile, idealistic, fluffy and child-like.
    - Desires that Te cooperates with it: personal interests and integrity.
    - Empathetic: directly feels the emotions of others.
    - Very accepting of other's emotions. Doesn't care for controlling them.
    - Nurturing. Forgiving.

    - Passionate; fuels my ambition and energizes Te's Get-It-Done mode.
    - Contradictory: High-spirited and melancholic; mature and immature.
    - Always knows what it wants. Goals must reflect this desire.

    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    INTJs are the NFs of the NTs
    Haha. True.

    Just ask them about their principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul V from INTJf
    I found this test and I was curious to see if INTJs were as moral as I was (and I'm disgustingly ethical. Really).
    Oh, you are not alone.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    INTJs are the NFs of the NTs

    But seriously. You use your tertiary Ti a fair amount, right? You're human (presumably) and need to function via both thinking and feeling. Doesn't make you an NT. Generally speaking, INTJs are pretty human and most of us do make use of our Fi.
    Oh, yeah. Human, definitely. You guys definitely have feelings, but I've always seen them as being more about weird poetic stuff and emotional depth, not really about right and wrong.

    You might be more human than me... remember, I relate to C3-P0, the protocol droid.
    As for moral codes, if you haven't realized that INTJs have them, you need to spend some more time with us. It's not a "oh my goodness don't say that kind of joke you might offend someone" moral code, it's more about principles.
    Principles? You mean like logic and mathematical axioms?

    What I mean is, INTJs don't seem at all averse to cursing, slang, wearing outlandish clothing, or making inappropriate comments. I don't see how someone like that could be considered to have a moral code. It's not unforgivable, but I still find it tacky enough that I wouldn't want to be seen with such a person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Really? I've always seen INTJs as a little inter-personally terse (bordering on what most would consider rude), but not crass. I've always thought that they seemed to be a fairly principled bunch.
    You know, this is why I once joked that F stands for "Formal" and T stands for "Terse."

    Where are these "principles" INTJs have? I don't see or understand them. Any concrete examples of when they might come into play?

  6. #16
    Senior Member SuperFob's Avatar
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    Where are these "principles" INTJs have? I don't see or understand them. Any concrete examples of when they might come into play?
    The goal in life is to make the most optimal contributions to society you can. If you fail to do so, you are an inefficient human being.

  7. #17
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Principles? You mean like logic and mathematical axioms?

    What I mean is, INTJs don't seem at all averse to cursing, wearing outlandish clothing, or making inappropriate comments. I don't see how someone like that could be considered to have a moral code. It's not unforgivable, but I still find it tacky enough that I wouldn't want to be seen with such a person.
    My brain just broke. Inappropriate comments and dressing weird=immoral?



    Fi principles tend to be highly individual, and in a tertiary position they're not that visible (Fi is hard enough to track down as it is). You probably never will actually see them, as they tend to be expressed in very unassuming ways. But to us, they're a driving force.

    Alright, so the only way I can go into this is to talk about my own moral compass (bear with me, it's not something I put into words much).

    The big one is responsibility. It covers a lot of things. I make no excuses. I aspire to recognize when something is my fault and do what I can to make reparations. This might not make sense to you, but making reparations doesn't necessarily involve verbally saying sorry. I am far more likely to go behind the scenes and try to correct the damage, or to do something nice for the person I've offended. I despise cheap excuses and "just words" apologies, and I don't really like to receive them either. I feel that it is immoral to try to pass blame on. I am likely to actually take responsibility for things that are only partly my fault if I have to choose between admitting fault or not. The thing is, I'm able to do this because I am not afraid that all of my chances at success in a venture will be ruined by accepting blame. Also, when I make a mistake, I feel that I deserve to pay for it and I accept consequences without complaint. To not do this would be against my morals.

    The second would be honesty. I'm a terrible liar. When I know something is one way, I can't bring myself to try to convince someone of an untruth. When I see others willfully lie and manipulate for their own gain, I think it nothing short of despicable. An example of this would be an old friend of mine (INFJ, actually) who had no qualms about lying to his mother, to the movie theater clerk, anyone. He'd lie about anything if it meant he could get what he wanted. He was very kind and sweet most of the time, but that side of him made me sick. Even when I see that kind of behavior in a lesser degree, I look down on it.

    Sometimes I feel like I'm playing the game by different rules than everyone else. There are a lot of people who don't have problems doing things that I find contemptible, but I am just not capable of operating on that level (there might be exceptions, but they would be very, very few).


    Wooo long post on morality.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFob View Post
    The goal in life is to make the most optimal contributions to society you can. If you fail to do so, you are an inefficient human being.
    Haha, ok, you meant that as kind of a snide remark. That's chill. But if I could put it in a way that an INTJ (well not any INTJ, just me) might actually feel about it?

    The goal in life is to give back what you owe to those who deserve it. If you can do more, you should do more. You shouldn't squander your talents and abilities, whatever they are, you should try to make something of your life because to not do so would be a waste.

    So uh...basically what you said.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  8. #18
    Senior Member SuperFob's Avatar
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    Haha, ok, you meant that as kind of a snide remark. That's chill. But if I could put it in a way that an INTJ (well not any INTJ, just me) might actually feel about it?
    It was a quote right out of my INTJ dad's mouth.

  9. #19
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFob View Post
    It was a quote right out of my INTJ dad's mouth.
    Lol, well alright then. Good for him.

    Also, sometimes we are apparently our own worst enemy
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  10. #20
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Where are these "principles" INTJs have? I don't see or understand them. Any concrete examples of when they might come into play?
    They are rather embarrassing for me to share in a public forum. Just think of the selfless Goody Two-Shoes (minus the society) who always tries to make the morally right choices despite unfavorable circumstances, and you should nail it. [Sample characters who reflect my morality: Atticus Finch from To Kill a Mocking Bird; Mr. Darcy from Pride & Prejudice; Batman; Remus Lupin from Harry Potter; Dan Evans from 3:10 to Yuma.)

    But I greatly thank Poppy for taking the bullet.

    I second her entire post as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    My brain just broke. Inappropriate comments and dressing weird=immoral?



    Fi principles tend to be highly individual, and in a tertiary position they're not that visible (Fi is hard enough to track down as it is). You probably never will actually see them, as they tend to be expressed in very unassuming ways. But to us, they're a driving force.

    [...]My own moral compass (bear with me, it's not something I put into words much).


    [I don't need the whole world to know that I'm moral. I just need to know that I'm moral. My Fi is always behind-the-scenes incorporating compassion into my decisions. So I may secretly help someone out and then leave the scenery before they arrive or notice.]
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

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