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  1. #141
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's pretty ironic. I was reading their YouTube page and some INFPs there had the same response you did. (Although also some INFPs said it was accurate as well.)

    It's too bad you didn't watch the entire video, to see if things balanced out from your perspective later when they explain Fi versus explaining Fe. I wonder if they had started with Fi and compared Fe to it, Fe people would have viewed it as negative.

    Personally, as an outsider, I didn't really experience anything as negative about Fe or Fi -- it was all just information to me.
    I saw it as neutral too. I got to the point where they say that Fe users are not above using white lies...
    Not that it's a horrendous thing to say at all. Also, if it's true... then I'll easily see it as neutral, but it definitely leaves a less than pleasant feeling in my gut.
    You are so arbitrary.

  2. #142
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I'm not sure you are an outsider. There's a really good chance that the person who put the vid together was an INTP. It seems you guys own a large chunk of Youtube with all the lists and breakdowns and sometimes critiques.
    CLARIFICATION: I'm an outsider in that I'm not an Fe or Fi dom/aux.

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    I saw it as neutral too. I got to the point where they say that Fe users are not above using white lies... Not that it's a horrendous thing to say at all. Also, if it's true... then I'll easily see it as neutral, but it definitely leaves a less than pleasant feeling in my gut.
    Yup, they said that and (as someone who would class more as Fe than Fi), I thought, "That's fair." it's not like Fi users haven't brought that point out before here as part of Fe.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #143
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    CLARIFICATION: I'm an outsider in that I'm not an Fe or Fi dom/aux.
    Ah, but we were talking about the presentation of the information, not just the subject matter. It does have an impact.

  4. #144
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Ah, but we were talking about the presentation of the information, not just the subject matter. It does have an impact.
    "We" were not talking about anything when "I" brought up the word "outsider" the first time.
    *I* was using the term to mean I wasn't an Fi/Fe Dom/Aux.

    Anyway, I posted that vid on TypC because I thought it was interesting, after considering posting it on a different forum, but it's because I forgot how crazy the Fi/Fe battling gets here.

    If I'm going to spend 80% of the discussion arguing with someone telling me what my words mean when I use them, it's not really worth it. That's not why I came here.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #145
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    "We" were not talking about anything when "I" brought up the word "outsider" the first time.
    *I* was using the term to mean I wasn't an Fi/Fe Dom/Aux.

    Anyway, I posted that vid on TypC because I thought it was interesting, after considering posting it on a different forum, but it's because I forgot how crazy the Fi/Fe battling gets here.

    If I'm going to spend 80% of the discussion arguing with someone telling me what my words mean when I used them, it's not really worth it. That's not why I posted it.
    Wow, this really wasn't an argument, it was an observation. What was being discussed, what I posted, which was admittedly besides the point of the video, was that you weren't offended and I was. I found it interesting in an objective way, which does related to the Fi/Fe OP. I was noting that the way the video was produced had something to do with it, and I was conjecturing as to the type that produced it.

    :P

  6. #146
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Some nit-picking feedback on the video [i.e., wall of steam-of-consciousness text]:

    How is sitting like your co-interviewee not “alignment with others?” Perhaps wasn’t verbally okayed, but seems at least somewhat align-y. Sometimes I think that Fi gets portrayed as not aligning at all, but i think can be very tuned in—but more to specific individuals, rather than groups. Still, I think FJs tend to be more explicit about checking in and reflecting, where-as FPs tend to be more implicit.

    I also think an FJ checking in advance (as Mulligan did) is illustrative: “I’m going to sit like this… is that okay?” I think perceivers more tune/optimize as they go, and are less likely to ask for explicit confirmation.

    I do see some occasional glances to the side for Garfield (checking in with Mulligan), but it does seem like a pretty Fi-ish rant (being against hierarchies at school, and how someone’s special talent might not be acknowledged).

    Still, Garfield emotes more in that clip than I do in front of others in a month. Still, he is an actor being interviewed, so in some sense sharing opinions and emotions is entirely appropriate to the occasion.

    I’d also argue that Fi concerns are as universal as Fe concerns, just coming at things from a different direction. Fe comes from the group and extends to care to the individual (sometimes extending the definition of the group to the universal). Fi starts from the individual, and extends to care for the universal (tending to skip over the group). Both often end at that same point, but by different routes. I’d agree, though, that Fi tends to align with the underdog first (even when that isn’t ideal). When taking of Fe, I think it's unfair to say that Fe doesn't care about individuals, it does care about individuals but more in the context of what's good for the group and what aligns with the greater humanitarian goal.

    When Mulligan is supportive of Garfield… I don’t see that as inherently Fe vs Fi. I tend to be reflexively supportive of others, myself, unless I feel they are being cruel or unfair. I also, personally, tend to do a lot of “active listening” and restate and reflect a fair amount. I don’t know if that’s typical of Fi, but it does fit well with the “harmonizing clarifier” aspect of INFPs. I feel like I often end up verbalizing and summing up someone else’s ramblings. In college I had a nickname among my friends as “The Voice of Reason,” which I thought was unjustified, as emotionally based as I am.



    At any rate, I didn’t feel like the video was overly negative about Fi. I found it hard to be offended by the content. I’m not sure the “Fe tends to white lie” aspect is fair. I certainly find “white lies” a challenge personally, but I don’t know whether that’s my personal values, or something more universal to FPs.


    BTW, I do often feel like NTPs accurately point out characteristics of Fi while mostly missing the point (Doctor Juice, for example). I don't feel like this video is particularly off base or unfair.

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