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  1. #131
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    IME, Fe users think more about how others feel. Fi users are less concerned with the feelings of others, and more concerned with figuring out their own.
    i find this to be true as well. and i think i'm an Fe user, but if i empathize with Fi users correctly, because they don't tend to intervene in other people's feelings, they're suspicious of other people meddling in theirs and would prefer for people not to.
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  2. #132
    A_priori
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    No seriously guys would anyone think I'm FE or FI based on my pic? I think we tend to use more of our whole face when animated.

  3. #133
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    IMO, I think you can line it in parallel with Te and Ti to help understand...

    Both Ti and Fi are "idealistic" thought processes concerned with the integrity of the principles that underlie the way we live and make decisions. For Ti, this means ensuring that the underlying logic we rely on is airtight - sort of like checking an engine to make sure everything is in place, connected correctly, at working at maximum. For Fi, this means ensuring that the underlying value structure we rely on is airtight. That makes both Ti and Fi users more laid-back, as they are mostly inspecting and fine tuning, rather than directing F or T in a situation, but it also makes us more stubborn because our logic/value structures don't adapt to fit the situation - rather, they underlie every situation. It also makes us more perfectionistic in F/T judgments - we will be more likely to forgo an efficient solution for the sake of one that is more "right" logically or ethically.

    In contrast, Te and Fe are "pragmatic" thought processes concerned with the manipulation of the environment to optimize conditions. For Te, this means logically reordering the environment (think the "logistics" commercials!) to create maximal efficiency. For Fe, it's a little harder to explain (at least for this Fi aux), but it's like a reorganization of the situation - often via impacting people and relationships - to create maximal fluidity (often harmony, but not always). This makes Te and Fe users play a more active role in their environment, as compared to more passive Ti/Fi users, but it also makes them less stubborn in terms of absolute logic/values, as they are more interested in the real-world effects and outcome than the static conceptual principles. (See why Ps are more air-headed? They are often more concerned with what should be than what is). This also makes Js more flexible in terms of judgments - where a Fi/Ti user is more likely to hardline, a Fe/Te user may be willing to sacrifice some of the rigid principles for the sake of better efficiency or better harmony.

    In terms of how these play out IRL, because Fi users are more concerned with the underlying structure, they can access that through themselves, so they don't have as much of a drive to reach out to others unless there is a specific reason as guided by the underlying structure (eg, this person looks sad; it is good to help people who are unhappy; I should try to help that person). Like @Lady X said, there is a fairly strong perception that our individual states of being are somewhat self-contained and independent, even though we may be affected by the same environmental variables - whereas with Fe there seems to be more of an awareness of those environmental variables and how they are impacting everyone, and a more clear perception of the constant influence that each person exerts on every other person. Because Fe users use those parameters of the given situation to make judgments, they have more of a drive to reach out to others, as it gives them more information about the situation and therefore helps them make better judgments.

    In terms of making judgments, let's take a situation where a coworker makes a racist comment. While this may be impacted by MBTI type, Enneatype, and variant as well, it may still be that a Fi user may be more likely to call that person out on the spot, as they violated the structural principle of «racism is harmful», and there is a desire to correct that situation as soon as possible - if we don't call them out right away, that is tacit approval of their viewpoint, and it can encourage others to be okay with that viewpoint too, which is creating further harm. On the downside, the Fi user isn't as well aware of the cause/effect of their actions and doesn't necessarily act with the realistic final outcome in mind - rather, we tend to focus on the idealistic outcome, assuming that if we act "correctly", the situation will inherently right itself.

    On the other hand, A Fe user may be more likely to pull that person aside later and speak to them privately, as the Fe user sees that calling them on the spot could make it a painfully awkward situation for anyone around, and it also might make the coworker less likely to be open to reconsidering their racist perspective. You might also notice a Fe user become visibly "cold" when someone has been offensive - it's almost a method of quiet operant conditioning / behavior modification, geared towards encouraging the right behaviors. On the downside, of course, Fe is not as geared towards the ideal.

    Down the road, the Fe user might be more likely to avoid choosing that coworker for something based on this prior behavior - again, Je is more cause/effect oriented, and so in tandem with Pi can anticipate and manipulate future outcomes via gathered knowledge. Fi with Pe is more oriented to creating a structure that will allow you to respond well in any situation, rather than preemptively acting to create a better environment. Therein lies the foundational difference between Js and Ps... Js try to influence their outward environment while Ps try to influence their inward environment to respond in an effective way to their outward environment. Both have their pluses and minuses!

    That is my current understanding, anyway!

  4. #134
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    @skylights, that was great. I really enjoyed reading it and you laid it all out very clearly. Thanks!
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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_priori View Post
    No seriously guys would anyone think I'm FE or FI based on my pic? I think we tend to use more of our whole face when animated.
    i would likely guess you were intp or infj from the pic yeah.
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  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time View Post
    To extremes

    Feelers
    Insult an Fe user and he/she will cry.
    Insult an Fi user and he/she will not show any emotion but cry on the inside.

    Thinkers
    Insult an Fe user and he/she will take hostile action towards you (verbally or physically)
    Insult an Fi user and he/she will ignore you and treat you like shit.
    Your description of what the FP does sounds more like what the TJ user would do and vice versa. TJs are the ones known for “stoicism,” FPs have stronger Fi and would react more harshly, albeit in a less direct way.
    Also, if your logic is right, then all the people who, according to this, felt insulted are actually FJs and not FPs. According to this video, only Fi-users care at all about identity and will take offense to being called something they think they’re not (that is, a feeling of their identity being violated). The response he described would actually be an emotional one, just not as direct as an Fe-user’s, and in addition he asserted that an FJ who was told “what they are” would immediately accept that response as logic, actually making for a less emotional reaction that that of the FP.

    And finally, you forget to take into account the introversion/extroversion split. IxFJ types are so concerned with not becoming a disruption in the Fe atmosphere, they will sooner withhold their own emotional responses than an IxFP will. If you insult an ISFJ, they’ll be like “That’s not a nice thing to say” in a droll, grey corrective tone. An INFJ will probably just ignore you. As for the ISFPs, they will readily take offense and kneejerk say something like “Go away” or “You’re such a jerk,” and if you offend an INFP, their facial expression may not change, but you will be able to tell that they feel hurt, certainly much more than with an IxFJ type.

  7. #137
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Thought this comparison was interesting.



    Going along with that, you get the visual differences between two introverts... so the appearances show a J vs P distinction. (Mulligan's exudes more precision, where everything is in its place and planned -- it's a more deliberate feel; Garfield, while still looking cleaned up, has a kind of casualness about his actions and appearance.)

    Side Note: I suspect the movie they're talking about is "Never Let Me Go."
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  8. #138
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    @Jennifer I watched the first part, felt like the analyzer was using negatively loaded terms to describe Andrew's Fi, was offended, and then stopped the vid. /Fi

  9. #139
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I watched the first part, felt like the analyzer was using negatively loaded terms to describe Andrew's Fi, was offended, and then stopped the vid. /Fi
    That's pretty ironic. I was reading their YouTube page and some INFPs there had the same response you did. (Although also some INFPs said it was accurate as well.)

    It's too bad you didn't watch the entire video, to see if things balanced out from your perspective later when they explain Fi versus explaining Fe. I wonder if they had started with Fi and compared Fe to it, Fe people would have viewed it as negative.

    Personally, as an outsider, I didn't really experience anything as negative about Fe or Fi -- it was all just information to me.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #140
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's pretty ironic. I was reading their YouTube page and some INFPs there had the same response you did. (Although also some INFPs said it was accurate as well.)

    It's too bad you didn't watch the entire video, to see if things balanced out from your perspective later when they explain Fi versus explaining Fe. I wonder if they had started with Fi and compared Fe to it, Fe people would have viewed it as negative.

    Personally, as an outsider, I didn't really experience anything as negative about Fe or Fi -- it was all just information to me.
    I'm not sure you are an outsider. There's a really good chance that the person who put the vid together was an INTP. It seems you guys own a large chunk of Youtube with all the lists and breakdowns and sometimes critiques.

    I may give it another go later.

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