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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    right...and a fi person will react warmly towards someone they feel a connection with...something within that person jives with their personal beliefs...a fe user i believe is more apt to treat everyone warmly because that's the nice thing to do...??

    also...yeah...outwardly shown emotion is more of a fe thing, i think.

    and fi will judge things based on their own made up belief system...and a fe person judges things based more on a global belief system...i think.
    There's 11 pages here, but I won't go through every single one of them to see if someone else has touched up on this.
    As an fe, I solely judge my actions and reasons on my own belief system. I pay attention to those around me and the actions and feelings of others (being fe of course), but the main reason I'm warm and treat people the way I do is because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Not the "nice" thing. But by "right thing" I don't mean what's right in the eyes of others or by the given law, but what's seen as right in my own personal belief system. Me and 2 other INFJ's I know truly have a high regard for justice and 'doing the right thing' (whatever that may be to those certain INFJ's) but we might see justice in more obscure ways than others.
    In other words, we in a way make up our own sense of justice.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychological types; Fe
    Feeling in the extraverted attitude is orientated by objective data, i.e. the object is the indispensable determinant of the kind of feeling. It agrees with objective values. If one has always known feeling as a subjective fact, the nature of extraverted feeling will not immediately be understood, since it has freed itself as fully as possible from the subjective factor, and has, instead, become wholly subordinated to the influence of the object. Even where it seems to show a certain independence of the quality of the concrete object, it is none the less under the spell of. traditional or generally valid standards of some sort. I may feel constrained, for instance, to use the predicate 'beautiful' or 'good', not because I find the object 'beautiful' or 'good' from my own subjective feeling, but because it is fitting and politic so to do; and fitting it certainly is, inasmuch as a contrary opinion would disturb the general feeling situation. A feeling-judgment such as this is in no way a simulation or a lie—it is merely an act of accommodation. A picture, for instance, may be termed beautiful, because a picture that is hung in a drawing-room and bearing a well-known signature is generally assumed to be beautiful, or because the predicate 'ugly' might offend the family of the fortunate possessor, or because there is a benevolent intention on the part of the visitor to create a pleasant feeling-atmosphere, to which end everything must be felt as agreeable. Such feelings are governed by the standard of the objective determinants. As such they are genuine, and represent the total visible feeling-function.

    In precisely the same way as extraverted thinking strives to rid itself of subjective influences, extraverted feeling has also to undergo a certain process of differentiation, before it is finally denuded of every subjective trimming. The valuations resulting from the act of feeling either correspond directly with objective values or at least chime in with certain traditional and generally known standards of value. This kind of feeling is very largely responsible for the fact that so many people flock to the theatre, to concerts, or to Church, and what is more, with correctly adjusted positive feelings. Fashions, too, owe their existence to it, and, what is far more valuable, the whole positive and widespread support of social, philanthropic, and such like cultural enterprises. In such matters, extraverted feeling proves itself a creative factor. Without this feeling, for instance, a beautiful and harmonious sociability would be unthinkable. So far extraverted feeling is just as beneficent and rationally effective as extraverted thinking. But this salutary effect is lost as soon as the object gains an exaggerated influence. For, when this happens, extraverted feeling draws the personality too much into the object, i.e. the object assimilates the person, whereupon the personal character of the feeling, which constitutes its principal charm, is lost. Feeling then becomes cold, material, untrustworthy. It betrays a secret aim, or at least arouses the suspicion of it in an impartial observer. No longer does it make that welcome and refreshing impression the invariable accompaniment of genuine feeling; instead, one scents a pose or affectation, although the egocentric motive may be entirely unconscious.

    Such overstressed, extraverted feeling certainly fulfils æsthetic expectations, but no longer does it speak to the heart; it merely appeals to the senses, or—worse still—to the reason. Doubtless it can provide æsthetic padding for a situation, but there it stops, and beyond that its effect is nil. It has become sterile. Should this process go further, a strangely contradictory dissociation of feeling develops; every object is seized upon with feeling-valuations, and numerous relationships are made which are inherently and mutually incompatible. Since such aberrations would be quite impossible if a sufficiently emphasized subject were present, the last vestige of a real personal standpoint also becomes suppressed. The subject becomes so swallowed up in individual feeling processes that to the observer it seems as though there were no longer a subject of feeling but merely a feeling process. In such a condition feeling has entirely forfeited its original human warmth, it gives an impression of pose, inconstancy, unreliability, and in the worst cases appears definitely hysterical.
    ..
    Quote Originally Posted by Fi
    Introverted feeling is determined principally by the subjective factor. This means that the feeling-judgment differs quite as essentially from extraverted feeling as does the introversion of thinking from extraversion. It is unquestionably difficult to give an intellectual presentation of the introverted feeling process, or even an approximate description of it, although the peculiar character of this kind of feeling simply stands out as soon as one becomes aware of it at all. Since it is primarily controlled by subjective preconditions, and is only secondarily concerned with the object, this feeling appears much less upon the surface and is, as a rule, misunderstood. It is a feeling which apparently depreciates the object; hence it usually becomes noticeable in its negative manifestations. The existence of a positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly, as it were. Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images. It is, as it were, continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away. It strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus. The depths of this feeling can only be divined—they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject. It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence.

    Primordial images are, of course, just as much idea as feeling. Thus, basic ideas such as God, freedom, immortality are just as much feeling-values as they are significant as ideas. Everything, therefore, that has been said of the introverted thinking refers equally to introverted feeling, only here everything is felt while there it was thought. But the fact that thoughts can generally be expressed more intelligibly than feelings demands a more than ordinary descriptive or artistic capacity before the real wealth of this feeling can be even approximately presented or communicated to the outer world. Whereas subjective thinking, on account of its unrelatedness, finds great difficulty in arousing an adequate understanding, the same, though in perhaps even higher degree, holds good for subjective feeling. In order to communicate with others it has to find an external form which is not only fitted to absorb the subjective feeling in a satisfying expression, but which must also convey it to one's fellowman in such a way that a parallel process takes place in him. Thanks to the relatively great internal (as well as external) similarity of the human being, this effect can actually be achieved, although a form acceptable to feeling is extremely difficult to find, so long as it is still mainly orientated by the fathomless store of primordial images. But, when it becomes falsified by an egocentric attitude, it at once grows unsympathetic, since then its major concern is still with the ego. Such a case never fails to create an impression of sentimental self-love, with its constant effort to arouse interest and even morbid self-admiration just as the subjectified consciousness of the introverted thinker, striving after an abstraction of abstractions, only attains a supreme intensity of a thought-process in itself quite empty, so the intensification of egocentric feeling only leads to a contentless passionateness, which merely feels itself. This is the mystical, ecstatic stage, which prepares the way over into the extraverted functions repressed by feeling, just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #113
    Senior Member Abbey's Avatar
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    Fi: wants personal harmony
    Fe: wants group harmony

    An issue I have with Fe users is I often feel they're being fake. They often feel I'm elusive.
    They're a bit overbearing. Fi users are a bit stubborn. They're good at bringing out the best in others. We value authenticity.

  4. #114
    Senior Member Abbey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unityemissions View Post
    Wouldn't you think Fe Expresses and Fi In-presses
    So accurate and clever!

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I can only speak for myself, but often the emotion isn't compelling me yell and scream and rage. Seriously. It's more like a sense of 'what's all this now?', and I need time to figure out what I'm feeling.

    Now when other people try to rush the process and ride me about expressing emotions before I'm ready- that's different- then I do feel compelled to yell and scream and rage. But in those situations I usually just go ahead and yell and scream and rage. I yell "Don't rush me." Then I get back to figuring out what I needed to figure out.

    But again- I don't think this is specifically related to Fe/Fi.
    Interesting I have an infj family member that does this as well.

  6. #116
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    @INTP

    Jung's definition of extraverted feeling used to irritate me somewhat. Mainly because he says:

    A picture, for instance, may be termed beautiful, because a picture that is hung in a drawing-room and bearing a well-known signature is generally assumed to be beautiful, or because the predicate 'ugly' might offend the family of the fortunate possessor, or because there is a benevolent intention on the part of the visitor to create a pleasant feeling-atmosphere, to which end everything must be felt as agreeable. Such feelings are governed by the standard of the objective determinants. As such they are genuine, and represent the total visible feeling-function.
    Now I would say he does attempt to give some examples in favour of bumping up Fe in the position of being authentic. But two of the three examples of motivation, (besides the first one about generally assumed standards which is obviously influenced by others), are still clearly influenced in regards to environmental opinions and from a perspective of authenticity, the question is of course about whether or not the individual truly is reacting or coming to a cognitive conclusion that they themselves personally approve of and endorse.

    However I realised the point that he was trying to make is that, regardless of the appearance that Fe is guided by outside social factors only, if an individual of the Fe type were to make a judgement based upon that information, that individual is still doing it on the basis of their own choice, which reminds people of the complexity of those associated social rules.

    Keeping the peace for example, is more than just a lack of backbone or a need to keep everything 'on the level'. With that mindset comes a large amount of careful consideration to the outcome of a set of potential variables in any given context. So they may feel...angry at an individual person, but at the same time realise that the conditions are not in the right stage for an outing of that anger in an effective manner socially and that by doing so they would cause pointless harm, instead of a useful catharsis.

    After all it deals in rational considerations and this example is a rational consideration. It is important, because of this, to discern that a large number of stereotypes in typology exist because of peoples personal experience with extreme examples of a certain type.

    Fe types that are extreme, will probably suppress as much as possible anything that is a threat to the social conditions that they deem currently important in their environment and community and they would do so perhaps to a detriment of that society, despite their perception to the contrary.

    A judgement against others enacted without due examination is a dangerous one regardless of it's context.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    To extremes

    Feelers
    Insult an Fe user and he/she will cry.
    Insult an Fi user and he/she will not show any emotion but cry on the inside.

    Thinkers
    Insult an Fe user and he/she will take hostile action towards you (verbally or physically)
    Insult an Fi user and he/she will ignore you and treat you like shit.
    IDK, wouldn't an Fe user be more likely to hold their negative emotions in to not make people around them feel uncomfortable? Fi users seem to freely express themselves a lot more than Fe users since they don't worry too much about what they should be feeling.
    I really like cats and food.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    IDK, wouldn't an Fe user be more likely to hold their negative emotions in to not make people around them feel uncomfortable? Fi users seem to freely express themselves a lot more than Fe users since they don't worry too much about what they should be feeling.

    I've thought that too. Fe users seem to think more about what they should be feeling than actually just feeling it, or something weirdly stupid like that.

  9. #119
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    I enjoyed this video, maybe it's useful to someone:

    I liked the initial premise that introverted functions are those we listen with, and extroverted functions those we talk through.

    I think this video could help a couple of ENTPs I've seen on the forum who are always semi-confused about what Fi is (unfortunately I don't remember their names).

  10. #120
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    IDK, wouldn't an Fe user be more likely to hold their negative emotions in to not make people around them feel uncomfortable? Fi users seem to freely express themselves a lot more than Fe users since they don't worry too much about what they should be feeling.
    no...that's not true. and there's a difference between fi being outspoken and fi being hurt or stepped on.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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