[MBTI General] 4w5 ... 5w4?

[Southern Kross]

I'm with you Nyx.

I'm guess I'm a 4w5 - although my 5 wing is very strong. I have some problems with enneagram but I like that this can explain my bizarre ability to straddle the gap between the arts and sciences. I am dreamy, empathetic, and romantic but at the same time logical and detatched. Most people are confused by it and don't know what to think of me or how to place me - they want me to be one way or another. I remember the difficulties I had with picking high school classes because the always clashed. No one could understand that I wanted to take Calculus, Physics, English, Geography and Japanese. And my 2 best subjects in my last year of school were Maths and Physics and my worst was English - I then went on to study English and Film, TV and Media at Uni (and with success ).

Like several NFs here I often come across as an 5w4 INTP (in fact I have wondered at times if I was a INTP) - especially when I things go wrong or I feel down, then I go into shut-down, hermit mode. I think its really handy to be able to mix emotions and logic well. I think with my heart but I can justify it with my head.

I wonder if there are other enneagram combos that feel the same degree of closeness/confusion.

 

[Nyx]

I'm with you Nyx.

I'm guess I'm a 4w5 - although my 5 wing is very strong. I have some problems with enneagram but I like that this can explain my bizarre ability to straddle the gap between the arts and sciences. I am dreamy, empathetic, and romantic but at the same time logical and detatched. Most people are confused by it and don't know what to think of me or how to place me - they want me to be one way or another. I remember the difficulties I had with picking high school classes because the always clashed. No one could understand that I wanted to take Calculus, Physics, English, Geography and Japanese. And my 2 best subjects in my last year of school were Maths and Physics and my worst was English - I then went on to study English and Film, TV and Media at Uni (and with success ).

Like several NFs here I often come across as an 5w4 INTP - especially when I things go wrong or I feel down, then I go into shut-down, hermit mode. I think its really handy to be able to mix emotions and logic well. I think with my heart but I can justify it with my head.

I see myself in INTP, INFP, and INFJ... I wish they could combine into a super type. Just as you said I am dreamy, empathetic, romantic as well as logical and detached. I can follow logic easily and reason well. I also have emotional depth and competence. I don't display it outwardly though

right now i can only describe myself as 5w4...still so confused. my functions order could indicate several different types.

 

[Totenkindly]

To go along with everything else, think about the archetypes:

Fives are interested in understanding things and deconstructing them. 5w4's are willing to venture into more ambiguous areas than the main sciences, they look for structure and coherence in macabre and abstracted fields and even venture into artistic/emotive realms looking for the structure and understanding of it. They often will "project" themselves within something or set themselves up as the experiment itself in order to better understand what they are exploring.

Fours are more interested in internal coherence, finding meaning for themselves personally as their focus, creating an identity for themselves. 4w5's use the analytical detachment of 5's to SOME degree, they pull in their thinking skills and critical crunching ability to find themselves so to speak.

The emphasis is something different in both. They're still both core Fours and Fives, just integrating the skillset and/or topical matter of the wing.

... of course I'm exploring this and thinking through it as I go, so maybe I am not quite right. But that's one stab at it.

 

[The Outsider]

Well 5w4 usually equates to INTP and 4w5 usually relates to INFJ or sometimes INFP. I think 5s are basically logical beings and 4s are more emotional.

Most INFPs seem to be 4w5 actually. Unsurprisingly, as it fits INFPs very well.

Anyway..

You need to look at your motivations. I think a 5 is generally more concerned with understanding the world, while a 4 would be about understanding him/herself and retaining his/her individuality.

I'll just post a bunch of useful links here:

Type 5 description
Type 4 description

Enneagram wing descriptions for all the types

Also, have a look at the instinctual variants:
Four stacks - the enneagram ...info from the underground
Five Stacks - the enneagram ...info from the underground

 

[Nyx]

Thanks Jennifer and Outsider, your insights really helped me understand the types/wings better.

I am still a bit confused with what type I am though... My functions in order are Ni, Ti, Fe=Fi, Ne...etc does that help? I have an artistic bent but am also intellectual... do these two things point towards 5w4? I suppose I am more often haunted by the world in general being cold and uncaring versus individual people... More disturbed by my thoughts than feelings. I think the disturbed emotions come out because of the disturbing realizations...I kind of think of it like Dali versus Goya...

I think the problem here is me not knowing myself well enough...not understanding how I work or what drives me.

 

[Sarcasticus]

Thanks Jennifer and Outsider, your insights really helped me understand the types/wings better.

I am still a bit confused with what type I am though... My functions in order are Ni, Ti, Fe=Fi, Ne...etc does that help? I have an artistic bent but am also intellectual... do these two things point towards 5w4? I suppose I am more often haunted by the world in general being cold and uncaring versus individual people... More disturbed by my thoughts than feelings. I think the disturbed emotions come out because of the disturbing realizations...I kind of think of it like Dali versus Goya...

I think the problem here is me not knowing myself well enough...not understanding how I work or what drives me.

Maybe your 4 and 5 scores are balanced? So your sort of between 4w5 and 5w4?

 

[Nyx]

Maybe your 4 and 5 scores are balanced? So your sort of between 4w5 and 5w4?

Yeah, the gap between the two would be most comfortable. I often find it hard to think in these typing terms because my personality seems to vacillate between being a detached thinker and an explorer of emotional/spiritual depths. For example: Being in nature brings out the emotional/spiritual side while at the same time having single-minded focused on whatever I am learning/obsessing over about at the moment knowledge-wise.

This dichotomy makes me want to smash my skull open at times...but I think the marriage of the two dualities gives you the ultimate perspective and satisfaction.

 

[Totenkindly]

...This dichotomy makes me want to smash my skull open at times...but I think the marriage of the two dualities gives you the ultimate perspective and satisfaction.

heh... sounds almost like "genderqueer" but in this case "enneaqueer." You don't fit easily into binaries, you're a natural merge.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I'm with you Nyx.

I'm guess I'm a 4w5 - although my 5 wing is very strong. I have some problems with enneagram but I like that this can explain my bizarre ability to straddle the gap between the arts and sciences. I am dreamy, empathetic, and romantic but at the same time logical and detatched. Most people are confused by it and don't know what to think of me or how to place me - they want me to be one way or another. I remember the difficulties I had with picking high school classes because the always clashed. No one could understand that I wanted to take Calculus, Physics, English, Geography and Japanese. And my 2 best subjects in my last year of school were Maths and Physics and my worst was English - I then went on to study English and Film, TV and Media at Uni (and with success ).

Like several NFs here I often come across as an 5w4 INTP (in fact I have wondered at times if I was a INTP) - especially when I things go wrong or I feel down, then I go into shut-down, hermit mode. I think its really handy to be able to mix emotions and logic well. I think with my heart but I can justify it with my head.

I wonder if there are other enneagram combos that feel the same degree of closeness/confusion.

I relate to a lot of this. In school, my best subjects as far as ease were higher math and science. However, I was drawn to English Lit and French because it excited me more, and was in some ways more challenging (mental stimulation I suppose). My heart and head battle it out a lot, but my head usually wins (to the despair of my heart). I just think it's Fi values and reason clashing with emotional desires.

I also score pretty close with my 5 wing, or higher sometimes, but I relate more to the 4 description (even though I find enneagram types vague overall). Although, I have questioned if it's just because I like the idea of being the artsy dreamer type, but the fact that I would romanticize that probably means I am not an investigating skeptic, haha.

 

[Clonester]

My car is a 10w30.

 

[neptunesnet]

Maybe your 4 and 5 scores are balanced? So your sort of between 4w5 and 5w4?