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[ENFJ] ENFJ behaviour

pinballs

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Hello, I have a question about ENFJs,

I've seen that ENFJs reveal more to people they're close to, but do they behave differently too? Are they more likely to be toned down and less extravagant?

When ENFJs are being extreme is that for their own enjoyment or are they trying to entertain others? ...or is that the same thing.

And is it always the case that ENFJs are upfront about someone they like, I sort of get the feeling that mixed messages from an ENFJ is always a bad sign. But maybe just like everyone they find real intimacy a bit scary so might need to back off sometimes. Is there any foolproof test to see how deeply an ENFJ feels..?


Thanks
 

Poki

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Hello, I have a question about ENFJs,

I've seen that ENFJs reveal more to people they're close to, but do they behave differently too? Are they more likely to be toned down and less extravagant?

When ENFJs are being extreme is that for their own enjoyment or are they trying to entertain others? ...or is that the same thing.

And is it always the case that ENFJs are upfront about someone they like, I sort of get the feeling that mixed messages from an ENFJ is always a bad sign. But maybe just like everyone they find real intimacy a bit scary so might need to back off sometimes. Is there any foolproof test to see how deeply an ENFJ feels..?


Thanks

They can become very giddy, playful, very much like an ENFP at times. When focused on others, they love to tell stories in ways to extract the most feeling. It is very entertaining. Fe allows them to control feelings and they are good at it. If you have a group of friends the person that can seem to always grab the attention is the ENFJ. They can twist and bend stories to extract the most emotion making it funnier, more horrifying, etc.

You will know as you become close. I have observed with my wife a turning point in relationships with people around her. The closer you get the more mixed feelings you will see. At a certain point all hell breaks loose and its at that point that people decide there distance with them. What they want to disclose, what they want to hide, etc. I dont know if this is on purpose, or a test, its just something I have witnessed over and over with alot of people.

They have many sides to extreme, sometimes its entertainment, other times its to get what they want. My wife tells everyone that she loves them. She has the mentality that is driven by dominant Fe that actions speak louder than words. This is because they are so good at twisting words to control feelings that they do not trust words. They are not ones who twist actions. Since its there strength they realize everyone "has the ability" to do this since we are all human, but like all of us dont realize that not everyone has that strength. That we are not all out to twist what we say around to bring out feelings in others. The pitfall to tertiary Se though seems to be that they dont trust what other people say about there actions because people can twist words. So they assign there own intentions to others actions.

Atleast thats my understanding from 12 years with an ENFJ.
 

pinballs

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thanks for this, the words and actions comment is really helpful, I've found it difficult not to think of an ENFJ I know as ..detached from the truth in a slightly unhealthy way, not seeing it as important as long as people feel good at that moment in time. but if he expects words to be taken with pinch of salt, but actions to be where statements are truly made.. that makes a lot of sense.

as for things blowing up, we've had one massive confrontation about different lifestyles, and about how he felt, and a few other less serious - over five years, and one period of losing touch completely for a few months.

now we are friends and important to each other i think, but it doesn't feel balanced. neither of us know about the other's everyday life in much detail, we always talk about big concepts and emotions and are both very private, but i do feel like it's me pushing him quite often.

i just wonder if it's reached as far down as it's going to get and i'm wasting my time in waiting for it to progress, when he's only maintaining things to keep the peace. or does value me but on a very specific level that isn't going to change.
 

TopherRed

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An ENFJ Perspective

Hello, I have a question about ENFJs,

I've seen that ENFJs reveal more to people they're close to, but do they behave differently too? Are they more likely to be toned down and less extravagant?

Well that depends by what you mean by "tone down" and "less extravagant". We will tone down for an INFP because you ground us.

Can you cope when we have our first emotional outburst? If you are there for us, it may be our last (well, our last real one). INFPs tend to have a grounding effect on me; I open up because I know I can trust you; this opening is what alleviates the pressure and I don't "storm". "Storming" is not the SJ anger, it's more a generally, emotionally unstable period of time when my tanks are full and I just cannot hold any more negative energy, so it lets off in an unhealthy way (journaling helps to alleviate this if nobody is around who I trust to listen), unless I know there's somebody I can trust with the deepest parts of my heart to let them know what's going on with me.

ENFJs are very sensitive to overburdening people...if we get that from you, we won't open up. Trapped in a less-than-open relationship will not be good for our emotional or physical health.

When ENFJs are being extreme is that for their own enjoyment or are they trying to entertain others? ...or is that the same thing.

Well...it can be both. Sometimes we entertain others with a goal in mind. Sometimes there's a member of the opposite sex involved, so we climb that mountain in the middle of the room and find a very Tony Stark-ish way of acheiving attention. We will then slowly zoom in on our target, until we charm the person we wanted to charm. Sometimes, we really do just want to be entertaining--feeds into our attention needs in a positive way, depending on what we do.

And is it always the case that ENFJs are upfront about someone they like, I sort of get the feeling that mixed messages from an ENFJ is always a bad sign. But maybe just like everyone they find real intimacy a bit scary so might need to back off sometimes. Is there any foolproof test to see how deeply an ENFJ feels..?

We are just as fallable in that department as you are--real intimacy can be scary, especially if we've got other things going on; intimacy is our Omega Directive--we drop as much as we can allow oursleves to pursue it. Mixed messages may mean that they are afraid to tell you how they really feel...good or bad. If I am internally conflicted about a relationship, I'm also externally conflicted--it's difficult to hide from other Ns.

A foolproof test? You want a foolproof test? Ask the ENFJ directly. They may dodge, so persist. I'd say 4 times out of 5, they actually want to tell you what's going on in their hearts, even if its about you...but only if you ask directly. Be gentle, be kind, be ready for anything, be understanding--but like I said, if they know you can handle them being open with you, they will be much less spastic after the first few times; much more willing to open up much more easily.

Be persistent, but not scary persistent. They may outright lie because they really can't let their guard down...if they do that, it's probably not best to pursue a relationship with that person.

Feel free to PM me with any further questions.

--Fuzz
 

Poki

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If I am internally conflicted about a relationship, I'm also externally conflicted--it's difficult to hide from other Ns.

It seems like ENFJs strength though is getting others to mold around them solving there external conflict. But seems to just compound there internal conflict?

IP types have the opposite problem. We solve internal conflicts, but external ones just compound.
 

Z Buck McFate

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You will know as you become close. I have observed with my wife a turning point in relationships with people around her. The closer you get the more mixed feelings you will see. At a certain point all hell breaks loose and its at that point that people decide there distance with them. What they want to disclose, what they want to hide, etc. I dont know if this is on purpose, or a test, its just something I have witnessed over and over with alot of people.

They have many sides to extreme, sometimes its entertainment, other times its to get what they want. My wife tells everyone that she loves them. She has the mentality that is driven by dominant Fe that actions speak louder than words. This is because they are so good at twisting words to control feelings that they do not trust words. They are not ones who twist actions. Since its there strength they realize everyone "has the ability" to do this since we are all human, but like all of us dont realize that not everyone has that strength. That we are not all out to twist what we say around to bring out feelings in others. The pitfall to tertiary Se though seems to be that they dont trust what other people say about there actions because people can twist words. So they assign there own intentions to others actions.

I’m almost positive my mother is ENFJ, and the parts in bold type- I really couldn’t have said it better. She’s incredibly charismatic, but she tends to keep all her acquaintances (outside of direct family) at a very controlled distance because she’s got a secret stash of incredibly mixed feelings- and when that secret stash boils over all hell does indeed break loose. Not many people get to see that side.

Also: the second bolded area, she’s constantly ‘noticing’ other people’s intentions. In fact, this is one of my biggest pet peeves. For example, she (1) tells us that she knows what any one of us is ‘actually’ thinking because of our actions, and (2) goes absolutely bat-shit crazy when she suspects one of us is trying to ‘tell her what she thinks’ simply because of her actions (in esse, she systematically gets deeply offended when ‘notices’ her own intentions in someone else).

I've seen that ENFJs reveal more to people they're close to, but do they behave differently too? Are they more likely to be toned down and less extravagant?

My first inclination is to answer, “Hell to the no.” My experience is that they really need to be able to trust someone to not take tantrums too seriously, because (as stated above) sometimes hell really, really does break loose.

But admittedly, the bulk of my opinion here is based on my experience of an ENFJ who happens to be my mother- so it’s hard to know what kind of family issues may be clouding my judgment.


EDIT: I may as well add that my dad is INTP, and they've been married almost fifty years now. Sometime my dad's T is a problem, but other than that they are a good match. I would guess INFP and ENFJ would be a good match.
 
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Domino

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Ok. Beef: Why does this always turn into "ENFJs throw tantrums"? I'm no more tantrum-y than anyone else I know. I may be temperamental, but I don't take hostages and I'm certainly not controlling of my loved ones or delusional. I'd like an explanation please of the "all hell breaks loose" superlative as well.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Ok. Beef: Why does this always turn into "ENFJs throw tantrums"? I'm no more tantrum-y than anyone else I know. I may be temperamental, but I don't take hostages and I'm certainly not controlling of my loved ones or delusional. I'd like an explanation please of the "all hell breaks loose" superlative as well.

Every type has it's quirks. That's not to say it's all-inclusive, not everyone with a given type is consequently going to have all the quirks associated with it. I was just noting the observations I have- of the ENFJ I have experience with- are similiar to the ones stated by Poki.

Besides- INFJs throw tantrums, too, it's just an internal process. I'm sure, to anyone dealing with me while I'm having an 'inner tantrum', I can be equally as frustrating.
 

Domino

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You'll have to describe the inner tantrum sometime. I'm intrigued. Fe forced underground must look like blasting caps under a load of sand.
 

Poki

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Ok. Beef: Why does this always turn into "ENFJs throw tantrums"? I'm no more tantrum-y than anyone else I know. I may be temperamental, but I don't take hostages and I'm certainly not controlling of my loved ones or delusional. I'd like an explanation please of the "all hell breaks loose" superlative as well.

All hell breaking loose: The way I have explained it to someone else. Take a SJ "storming" and give him the ability to verbalize every thought in his head. The storm seed starts in Se which is an action that she assigned an intention. It then feeds to Ti-Ni. Everything starts geting tied together somehow. Ni which is like Ne randomness getting focused. The ability to jump from thing to thing like building a spider web to traverse of everything that led up to the real reason behind the conflict and how it all ties to this. Like a storm cloud building. Sometimes it just simmers and goes away, other times "all hell break loose". It may not even be related directly towards you, but you are the outlet because something you did triggered it that relates to the core internal conflict. This is how it appears from the outside. You can tell when they hit Ti-Ni, they get this extremely pissed off zoned out look.

My wife asked me the other day why everyone is so scared of talking to her when they screw up. She sees the aftermath, but not the storm.

And I am left scratching my head because the initial intention she assigned the action was wrong.
 

Domino

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It may not even be related directly towards you, but you are the outlet because something you did triggered it that relates to the core internal conflict. This is how it appears from the outside. You can tell when they hit Ti-Ni, they get this extremely pissed off look.

My wife asked me the other day why everyone is so scared of talking to her when they screw up. She sees the aftermath, but not the storm.

You talk about her doing this *A LOT*. Your wife sounds like she has a learned anger management problem. It's not a type problem. It's a person problem.

People have said they were intimidated by me but those people generally and quickly fell into the obvious categories of "Had A Confrontation Coming For Repeatedly Acting like a Jerk" or "Passive-Aggressive Irresponsible Conflict-Avoidant Who Wants to Hang Their Fear on Others".

People have backed down in intimidation from my ENTJ best friend, my ESTJ mother, my ENFP sister, my ISTJ half-sister, my ISFP friend. An angry woman has no type. The pissed-off look is universal. She also sounds like she's surrounded by people who can dish it but can't take it either, and THAT part isn't her fault.

Your wife needs to seek counseling and I mean that kindly.
 

Poki

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You talk about her doing this *A LOT*. Your wife sounds like she has a learned anger management problem. It's not a type problem. It's a person problem.

People have said they were intimidated by me but those people generally and quickly fell into the obvious categories of "Had A Confrontation Coming For Repeatedly Acting like a Jerk" or "Passive-Aggressive Irresponsible Conflict-Avoidant Who Wants to Hang Their Fear on Others".

People have backed down in intimidation from my ENTJ best friend, my ESTJ mother, my ENFP sister, my ISTJ half-sister, my ISFP friend. An angry woman has no type. The pissed-off look is universal. She also sounds like she's surrounded by people who can dish it but can't take it either, and THAT part isn't her fault.

Your wife needs to seek counseling and I mean that kindly.

Thats my inferior Fe speaking. It can make things seem worse than they are. I was trying to explain the "all hell breaks loose" and that was the best I could do. You must use the worst to be able to explain it in detail. Try explaining a tornado using a little dust whirlwind. It just doesnt work. There are all different levels and everyone can take it at different amounts to different extents. Some types have a hard time of getting past plain ol' tell it like it is honesty.

I do know the pissed off look of women, but ENFJs take it to a different level others get all huffy puffy and cant seem to get it out like they want. ENFJs are not limited by this they know how to get it out verbally and will.
 

Domino

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Thats my inferior Fe speaking. It can make things seem worse than they are. I was trying to explain the "all hell breaks loose" and that was the best I could do. You must use the worst to be able to explain it in detail. Try explaining a tornado using a little dust whirlwind. It just doesnt work. There are all different levels and everyone can take it at different amounts to different extents. Some types have a hard time of getting past plain ol' tell it like it is honesty.

I will concede this point. Do not ISTPs operate on the same platform of directness?

I do know the pissed off look of women, but ENFJs take it to a different level others get all huffy puffy and cant seem to get it out like they want. ENFJs are not limited by this they know how to get it out verbally and will.

Ok. And this one. I can lock and load with one hand, and have several shots off before the repeat offender has a chance to go for his gun. Ever see that one Far Side cartoon where this gunfighter is standing over a dead guy and is asking questions, like "What is the square of fifty four?" or something silly, and some old guy is shouting, "Darn you, Black Bill, you ask questions FIRST, THEN shoot!" I have to laugh every time I see that.

I wonder what an ESFJ looks like when the missiles have been armed. I assume this is an Fe thing? The sudden mental ordering and clarity of the burn-down?
 
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Glycerine

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I wonder what an ESFJ looks like when the missiles have been armed. I assume this is an Fe thing? The sudden mental ordering and clarity of the burn-down?

You don't want to see an ESFJ like that...RUN. ;) I used to be around an ESFJ who had their missiles loaded regularly and I would be the one who he took it out on. All hell can break loose with ESFJs too. Fe can be a scary, scary thing when angered. Oops, I might have misinterpreted the question.

If you are talking about an ESFJ who's stressed, angry and has had enough, they might erupt at every little annoyance. ESFJs DO emotion when they hit the brink and the missiles are loaded.
 

WieldingTheSword

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Hello, I have a question about ENFJs,

I've seen that ENFJs reveal more to people they're close to, but do they behave differently too? Are they more likely to be toned down and less extravagant?

When ENFJs are being extreme is that for their own enjoyment or are they trying to entertain others? ...or is that the same thing.

And is it always the case that ENFJs are upfront about someone they like, I sort of get the feeling that mixed messages from an ENFJ is always a bad sign. But maybe just like everyone they find real intimacy a bit scary so might need to back off sometimes. Is there any foolproof test to see how deeply an ENFJ feels..?


Thanks

I think ENFJ's are certainly outgoing in the sense that we converse with most people freely, but as far as revealing ourselves, we are extremely reserved. We have to truly believe you will appreciate us when we STOP being so charismatic and social and can handle our mixed, darker emotions.

I don't think there is a foolproof way to see how deeply an ENFJ feels because we tend not to be able to even verbally express the depth to which we feel things. However, ENFJs are pretty in-tune with what they feel and why they feel it.
 

Domino

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I think ENFJ's are certainly outgoing in the sense that we converse with most people freely, but as far as revealing ourselves, we are extremely reserved. We have to truly believe you will appreciate us when we STOP being so charismatic and social and can handle our mixed, darker emotions.

I don't think there is a foolproof way to see how deeply an ENFJ feels because we tend not to be able to even verbally express the depth to which we feel things. However, ENFJs are pretty in-tune with what they feel and why they feel it.

Indeed. I don't take time with people I don't like or see some sort of use for. As I get to know you (after you've passed the instinctive "good person/bad person" alarm system), it will become more and more evident how I feel about you. I have a very bad poker face. Everything I feel shows in my eyes. My general warmth is never fake, but the depths and levels I go to is something I reserve for friends only. A good sign is if I feel comfortable enough to freely argue or disagree with you, even heatedly. That means you're beyond the Pleasant Acquaintance Containment Room.
 

Poki

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Cause them to completely crash and it will come out. You must get past the dark emotions, get past the fight, completely exhaust them to the point where they have no fight left. The feelings are there. I have got there a few times.
 

Domino

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Cause them to completely crash and it will come out. You must get past the dark emotions, get past the fight, completely exhaust them to the point where they have no fight left. The feelings are there. I have got there a few times.

You have gone where few have gone before. You must be a special man.
 

proteanmix

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Indeed. I don't take time with people I don't like or see some sort of use for. As I get to know you (after you've passed the instinctive "good person/bad person" alarm system), it will become more and more evident how I feel about you. I have a very bad poker face. Everything I feel shows in my eyes. My general warmth is never fake, but the depths and levels I go to is something I reserve for friends only. A good sign is if I feel comfortable enough to freely argue or disagree with you, even heatedly. That means you're beyond the Pleasant Acquaintance Containment Room.

P.A.C.R. I like that acronym. I'm stealing it!

But seriously, what's so wrong with being there? That's a cool place to be! That means I Like You. We're simpatico. We hang out, I like to discuss things with you, I call you up ask for your opinion on things rather than smiling and saying "That's very interesting!" We eat interesting foods, see progressive theater and contemporary art, I get drunk with you, try to smother you with my breasts. I may even sniff your finger! You're the person that I say, hey I'm going through Philly this weekend and I want to drop by and see you.

P.A.C.R.'s kinda like being in Limbo. I mean really, people that I'm closest to have to deal with a lot of my stuff. It's not always Tahitian Sands resort. And what if you get there and it's all a bottomless black sucking void? Now you want a refund and guess what? ALL SALES ARE FINAL. :sombrero:
 

Bubbles

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You don't want to see an ESFJ like that...RUN. ;) I used to be around an ESFJ who had their missiles loaded regularly and I would be the one who he took it out on. All hell can break loose with ESFJs too. Fe can be a scary, scary thing when angered. Oops, I might have misinterpreted the question.

If you are talking about an ESFJ who's stressed, angry and has had enough, they might erupt at every little annoyance. ESFJs DO emotion when they hit the brink and the missiles are loaded.

*has witnessed this with multiple ESFJs* :yes:
 
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