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Thread: "Idealism"

  1. #1
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    Default "Idealism"

    I posted this in a thread on the relationship forum but wanted to get opinions of NF types. This is a combination of what was someone said and combining it with logic and perception and just wanted others opinions on it. I know there was a post on ENFPs and lack of a fatherly figure or attention and this seemed to take that on ethought one step farther and could apply to NFs in general. NF men may have this applied to a womanly figure instead of a manly or fatherly figure.

    I was talking about women to someone the other day and she had said that sometimes that thier fathers lack of emotional affection causes women to attach to those who who will give it to them and to do anything to get just a glimpse of that affection. It is selfish and they will close there eyes to achieve that affection. They dont suffer from knowledge they suffer from closed eyes. They dont see the person for who they are, they see them for what they want them to be and hold onto glimpses of who they can be. Sometimes its the lack of attention that they seek. What they lack is personal not based on personality. How they go about getting it is personality based.

  2. #2
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    It's true that lacking something in your life makes you more prone to seek it out and once you've found it, it's harder to let it go. But this kind of attachment seems to be more like an unhealthy obsession.

    Personally, I don't see much in my own behaviour (maybe others do) that would be regarded as "doing anything, no matter what, to get that attention". I aim for quality rather than quantity and I am able to realize that the quality of such an attachment is unhealthy and leads nowhere in the long run.

    Are NF's more prone to such behaviour? I wouldn't know but I guess every person is affected by something like this to a certain degree and some are unable to deal with it and resort to obsession. And it also depends on the level of maturity.

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    NFs aren't prone to this particularly, but people with emotional issues are, and that can be any type . This is a common problem among abuse survivors. Some probably happen to be NFs. I have done this and my SP friend does this too. Its emotional conditioning. Therapy is really needed to get over this in part if you really can get over this at all. Its such a difficult subject to generalize like that.
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    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
    NFs aren't prone to this particularly, but people with emotional issues are, and that can be any type . This is a common problem among abuse survivors. Some probably happen to be NFs. I have done this and my SP friend does this too. Its emotional conditioning. Therapy is really needed to get over this in part if you really can get over this at all. Its such a difficult subject to generalize like that.
    I just read another post that made me realize how one sided or extreme this is and I really didnt mean it that way. It was focusing on one aspect. Like tearing something apart and looking at each piece individually. It completely seperate from those that lie and hide on the other side to help make matters worse. It was just meant as the NF side of "Idealism". I do see my idealism from time to time, but not as much in regard to relationships.

    edit: as an example someone said my wifes "Idealism" may be a close, tight knit family.

  5. #5
    Patron Saint Of Smileys Gloriana's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think putting a partner up on a idealistic pedestal is something any type is capable of.

    I had such a long time to 'envision' what my partner would be like before I got into a relationship, but when I got there it wasn't long before I realized I had to take a look at who he actually WAS rather than who I had WISHED him to be, and then discern how I felt about him. I felt some things were missing sometimes, but I would quantify how important certain things actually were to me by asking myself "Well, what do I WANT from him and what do I NEED from him?".

    There were all these fickle little traits or characteristics I WANTED him to have but really meant NOTHING in terms of a relationship, there were plenty of things unique to who he was that left me forgetting all those little things. It was the aspects I NEEDED that mattered. I personally ignored the things I NEEDED too much and didn't deal with it as well as I could have, something I've learned.

    I relate to the longing for a partner to fill in voids left by neglect in childhood. I was neglected by a single alcoholic mother, never had a father in my life in any real capacity. Definitely leaves a massive hole that can be a royal mess to deal with later on. I did have a period where I think I wanted to stretch my partner to fill all these voids, but they were voids that were not his responsibility to fill, and they were voids he simply COULD NOT POSSIBLY fill.

    That elusive nurture and affection that was missing as a kid, it's really challenging to cope with that and deal with it. I have seen a lot of people searching for it and searching for it their whole lives without even realizing that's what they're doing. For me, it's been a matter of reconciling my past, learning ways to fill MYSELF up with the love I need and LET GO.

    Tricky and painful business to put it lightly, but it's the path I want to follow. I don't want to put a partner in a position to feel pushed to fill voids he never could, not wanting to put him in a position to feel like he's failed me where there is no chance he could succeed, if that makes sense. For me it's been a matter of discerning what a partner can realistically provide for me in terms of love/affection/support and what areas I need to tend to myself. I don't want to idealize and create a towering pedestal my partner will be doomed to fall off of!
    "Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get, but if you work really hard, and you're kind, amazing things will happen. I'm telling you...amazing things will happen" --Conan O'Brien

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    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    People always assume Idealism refers to world peace, everyone loving each other, and that whole game.

    But Idealism is personal. Ideals are anything that you hold in high regards, as in values. Someone can have the ideal of creating mass chaos, murdering people, criticizing everything, or just being a flat out jerk, for example. It just usually doesn't end up that way.

    Just something to consider for people who don't understand Idealism too well, which might be quite a few people (not any NFs obviously)..but I hope you catch my drift.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    People always assume Idealism refers to world peace, everyone loving each other, and that whole game.

    But Idealism is personal. Ideals are anything that you hold in high regards, as in values. Someone can have the ideal of creating mass chaos, murdering people, criticizing everything, or just being a flat out jerk, for example. It just usually doesn't end up that way.

    Just something to consider for people who don't understand Idealism too well, which might be quite a few people (not any NFs obviously)..but I hope you catch my drift.
    Is that an ideal or a means to an ideal? If you wanted attention you may create mass chaos because this is what you know, but creating mass chaos is not the ideal its a transportation mechanism to reach this ideal.

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    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Is that an ideal or a means to an ideal? If you wanted attention you may create mass chaos because this is what you know, but creating mass chaos is not the ideal its a transportation mechanism to reach this ideal.
    Well, I guess I was getting at a means to an ideal, when trying to reach the outcome.

    Good point..geez. I don't know what to say to that.. I'll come back when I've thought about it.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  9. #9
    Patron Saint Of Smileys Gloriana's Avatar
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    I like to think there's an ideal partner out there for me, I just don't know why he's ideal yet, haha.
    "Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get, but if you work really hard, and you're kind, amazing things will happen. I'm telling you...amazing things will happen" --Conan O'Brien

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriana View Post
    I like to think there's an ideal partner out there for me, I just don't know why he's ideal yet, haha.
    What I noticed with J types is that they have a preconcieved notion on how to get what they want, but this does not always atract the right person. Its like the word serendipity. When we stop looking for something and turn a different direction we seem to find things we werent looking for. Some call this luck or fate, but what if the ability to not find what we are looking for is driven by the wrong action. We then dismiss the correct action and continue down the wrong path.

    What I have learned from duality is that the person who can help us the most in life we ignore because they cant help us with what we think we need help with. We looked down upon them because we dont understand how a certain action can cause the outcome they want. This happens on both sides. We are attracted to our conflicting pair because they help us with what we think we need help with. All they do is enable us to go down the wrong path, the path we think we want to go down. They help us destroy ourselves and we then blame them for it when all they did was help us in the direction we thought we wanted to go.

    edit: Since MBTI is a preference I believe we flip between J/P. I do see what I posted above in myself even though I am P not J.

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