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  1. #21
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Oh, and I know not all ENFJs are like this.... my best guy friend is also an ENFJ, and while he has his annoyances, I always know where I stand with him.
    Specify "annoying" for me; I'm not offended, I just want to see if there's anything I can take away from an outside observation of another ENFJ.

    I'm glad you don't bash us all--I'm tired of getting put into the "scumbag" cateogry just because of Fe. I'm a people mover--I'm very open about that and I try not to be deceptive in my dealings with others. "Try" meaning I make an effort to just direct people honestly with my impressions and interpretations of others--the problem is, nobody ever listens (because most people are SJs and they think they're right about everything). So I prove my point...and they stand back and go, "oh", and then next week it's the same deal.

    Sometimes you've got to twist the emotion a little, or present facts from a "favorable prespective" in order to get people to do something. For an ENFJ, the real moral measure is the motivation.
    Love is the point.

  2. #22
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Sometimes it seems like his head is so inflated and if you don't keep pumping the helium in, he flies around all erratic like a deflating balloon. I admit I took some pleasure in popping a pin in his head, then inevitably felt bad.
    That line totally made me laugh! haha I visualized his balloon head flying around erratically after being popped by your pin lol

    Anyhow, I have noticed that remembering "important" dates, holidays, gifts, etc are very important to J types, not just ones with Fe in this case. Just as your inner self is very important, their outer self is very important. Hm, now how do you get that across to an Fe type? Well, perhaps try to grovel at their feet just so you can get attention and then lay it out on them and be upfront. You just have to be tricky cuz otherwise they will or throw some sort of fit and think you are the lol jk, but it's kinda true.


  3. #23
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    ^ Depends on how mature they are. But, even as a guy, I might break down if she was actually improtant to me. ARRRGHH!! We are so complicated. I need a hug.
    Love is the point.

  4. #24
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    ^ Depends on how mature they are. But, even as a guy, I might break down if she was actually improtant to me. ARRRGHH!! We are so complicated. I need a hug.
    it's ok, we still love ya...and you love us, right?


  5. #25
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    So I send the expected e-card a day late and make a joke about forgetting the exact date, and he replies in this really annoyed, scolding manner, like "you should feel really bad, and don't expect anything from me on your b-day". Now, maybe he was joking, because he does that, but when I made light of this reaction, he then made it a point to say he always remembers everything I tell him about me (which is not true). He made several jabs towards me about other things, and then got all weird and sappy, saying he feels he knows me so well, and tried to get me to say he is my "favorite friend" (What does that even mean? He knows he is NOT my best friend, and he's never called me his "favorite friend". He has many, many female friends he flirts with like mad, and has never made any sincere indication that I am more special, so why does he need to be most special to me? /mini rant). So I teased him back & got rather rude. Sometimes it seems like his head is so inflated and if you don't keep pumping the helium in, he flies around all erratic like a deflating balloon. I admit I took some pleasure in popping a pin in his head, then inevitably felt bad. However, I have been very "deflated" as of late, and he expresses no concern towards me.
    Just curious, how did this exchange occur? Was this on the phone or through texts, emails, facebook? I'm just wondering if something was lost in the translation even if you made it clear you were joking. I figure there's always a reason why a person reacted the way they did.

    I really hate how people boil Fe down to simple shit like birthdays. To me, it sounds like he's responding to something else, maybe the distance that has settled into your relationship? I'm not going to automatically fly to the conclusion that he's a Fe bully I just would like to know what else is going on. He could really be a jerk out to guilt trip and if so, you two don't sound very close so good riddance. He's fairly easy to side step.

    Also you said you feel like you're on the back burner, but why is this? Do you feel like your efforts to keep the friendship going have been ignored? The cold, hard truth of many relationships is that once literal physical distance enters the equation or there's no longer a common activity to bond they tend to fade out. I had lots of people I was cool with in college, but once we walked across that stage the most I get from them (and vice versa) is chain emails. I think if your friendship with him was classified as someone you like, you had a shared activity with, you thought you could sustain a friendship without the activity but it didn't happen, then I'd allow the distance to creep in the relationship. You're better than me because I don't think I would've sent anything if that's the direction things were headed and I didn't feel there was any reciprocal effort to keep things going.

    Maybe I have a pretty nonchalant attitude about this kind of drifting that occurs within friendships. I'd rather not create the expectation of more when I know there's little chance there will be more. I expect that likable people will come in and out of my life, some will stick, some won't and hopefully we'll mutually enjoy each other for the time. I'm pretty hail fellow, well met in this respect.

    I just don't know what his deal is. How can you mostly ignore someone, but then get mad when they don't make over your stupid b-day? Not to mention, this is a grown man, not a 12 year old. Plus, my e-card was quite charming, with line after line of cuteness added by me, and it was totally pegged as a failure simply because it wasn't on time. That really bugs me also....
    Yeah, I don't know what to say. If it went down like this, then he's got a tight asshole.

    Why does it seem like he is always jumping from new friend to new friend, focusing on the new and forgetting old ties, but expecting old ties to be there for him?
    Possibly, because of above? I don't consider most people more than casual acquaintances. The only way I know not to make people think we're more than what we are is to be really formal and make very strict roles and discourage crossing the boundaries I've set up, but that's not very friendly and welcoming!

    Is this just a really insecure person who needs everyone to love him and give him fanfare, but who is unwilling to actually put himself out there for a genuine friendship?
    Like I said, I don't know the history between you and this guy. Maybe you two never got on the same wavelength about the friendship or the distance was something greater than what you had before could shoulder.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #26
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    Specify "annoying" for me; I'm not offended, I just want to see if there's anything I can take away from an outside observation of another ENFJ.
    Oh, well that's a different friend, and I just meant that he has flaws like anyone else, but overall, he has been a good friend. Interestingly, he moved far away when we were kids and yet he's hung onto our friendship and still asserts to everyone that we are very close. I don't think I've met anyone who is quite so fiercely loyal to his friends, and I greatly appreciate that. This is the side of ENFJs that I really like. The problem is when they won't let go, but they also won't allow it to grow or end naturally. I don't have much use for friendly acquaintances...

    Quote Originally Posted by luminous beam View Post
    You just have to be tricky cuz otherwise they will or throw some sort of fit and think you are the lol jk, but it's kinda true.
    Tell me about it

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Just curious, how did this exchange occur? Was this on the phone or through texts, emails, facebook? I'm just wondering if something was lost in the translation even if you made it clear you were joking. I figure there's always a reason why a person reacted the way they did.

    I really hate how people boil Fe down to simple shit like birthdays. To me, it sounds like he's responding to something else, maybe the distance that has settled into your relationship?
    It was an email thing, so yes, possible meaning could've been lost in translation. I'm not a phone person and I mostly avoid talking on the phone.

    I agree this isn't about the actual b-day. That's why I made the thread. Obviously, he attaches some symbolism to these things, and that's evident by the fact that I got scolded and someone else didn't for the exact same blunder. Unless I took the hit for everyone, which is very possible.


    Also you said you feel like you're on the back burner, but why is this? Do you feel like your efforts to keep the friendship going have been ignored?
    The reason I feel I am "on the back burner" is because in the past we would have real conversations, but now it's been reduced to brief exchanges and quipping. That's cute, but that gets old for me. I have no interest in sustaining a relationship based on that. This is probably an I / E difference. I have a few close friends, and everyone else is a stranger unless they can work their way in & stay there. It feels like going back to square one every time we interact otherwise, and I admit my goal in life is to connect deeply with people. But I don't have it in me to just coldly cut someone off, and I do genuinely like him as a friend. What he doesn't respond to are my efforts to go beyond surface conversation. I'm not talking confessional stuff, but just talking about anything indepth.


    You're better than me because I don't think I would've sent anything if that's the direction things were headed and I didn't feel there was any reciprocal effort to keep things going.
    He always sends me a note for every holiday/b-day, so I felt I was the one reciprocating here. Otherwise, I would just ignore it.

    Maybe I have a pretty nonchalant attitude about this kind of drifting that occurs within friendships. I'd rather not create the expectation of more when I know there's little chance there will be more. I expect that likable people will come in and out of my life, some will stick, some won't and hopefully we'll mutually enjoy each other for the time. I'm pretty hail fellow, well met in this respect.

    I don't consider most people more than casual acquaintances. The only way I know not to make people think we're more than what we are is to be really formal and make very strict roles and discourage crossing the boundaries I've set up, but that's not very friendly and welcoming!
    You know what, I agree with the attitude of accepting that people come & go. I have tried to let the friendship die a natural death, but then a few weeks go by and he's contacting me and smothering me with compliments & saying he misses hearing from me . I don't know if you saw my later post in here where I said he pulls in the reigns when I create distance. My efforts amount to trying to let it die or make it grow, because I get a yo-yo emotional effect otherwise. As I said above, I have little use for casual acquaintances, and I think this is where I probably differ from him. He seems to enjoy having some legion of fans at his disposal....the dark, cult leader side of the ENFJ rearing its head I guess
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #27
    Senior Member Liminality's Avatar
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    <3 for the ENFJs.

    I've experienced flaming double standards, I think it applies to a person being high maintenance (/a control freak) (and really isn't helped with major amounts of J) more than anything else, heck, an INTJ friend did it once.
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    It's just on the tip of your tongue, and you're so silent

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    I'm sorry... sounds like a huge guilt trip to me, . From my own eNFJ standpoint, I don't think you did anything wrong. It seems like an overreaction on his part. NFJs sometimes read WAY too much into things. He might have thought your lightheartedness about the card meant that his birthday (in extension, him) was not important to you. I know that probably sounds stupid but yeah. Even though he REALLY overreacted, maybe you can explain to him why it was late?

    "That and I've realized he uses the same lines/approach on everyone, and so now it rings hollow."


    Yeah both of these are true. I think ENFx can read into things a lot, I don't think it is just Js.

    I know that for me, Fe dominant users (ESFJ, ENFJ) can greatly care about those little things like Birthdays and "hello, goodbye, how are you doing". It can be tough for some people to remember and you can inadvertently insult them.

    I think it is best to:

    1) apologize
    2) tell him/her how much they mean to you
    3) tell him/her not to overact in the future, because it hurts your feelings, which of course they don't want to do

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