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  1. #161
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamp View Post
    "When I care about this, I need to participate (make it real)" (?)

    I do not think potential needs to pass a test of 'feeling reality'.
    I meant more to claim that Fi reaction in the moment is calibrated by comparison to past Fi reaction as recorded in Si events. Or that Si acts as a library of feelings past. And that this is a possibly only semi-conscious process. (It presumably becomes more conscious during the times one actively seeks to raise the ghosts and assess.)

    The overall idea is that Te and Si are there as semi-conscious checks on how Ne/Fi will go about their normal business. The Ne/Fi is far, far more conscious and in control, but (presumably) there's still those shaping semi-conscious backgrounders.


    For you see, I believe I have seen Si at work in young ENFPs. They routinely make clear claims of a wish for a steady, quiet life. And I'm like, woah, what the--, who--, what's going on here? My hypothesis is that's Si reaching up its staid black tentacles to squeeze Ne/Fi into some kind of realistic shape. In 19-year-olds.

  2. #162
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Hmm, it is highly ironic that I frequent this site as much as I do and yet, still damn near know jack shit about typology, nor even really care?

    I do know this, though.

    In many ways, I am a self-hating F.

    My Fi has been the crux to my life's meaning.

    Being highly empathetic has been both a blessing and a curse.

    I have turned to logic and analytical reasoning, and "putting things in their right place" in order to cope with the effects of being emotionally sensitive in what can be an incredibly cold, neutral, godless world.

    I dunno, like right now, for perfect example. I am a tornado of emotions, and the only way I can cope right now, is focusing on "fixing" me, and things, I guess.

    I don't know.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    .
    Just because an ENFP says the same thing 20 times in a row, that doesnt mean it is correct.

    :yim_rolling_on_the_


    This.

    I admit it.

  4. #164
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    Is the Te Demand potentially independent of tertiary temptation?



    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    For you see, I believe I have seen Si at work in young ENFPs. They routinely make clear claims of a wish for a steady, quiet life.
    I do this. I must really mean that I just want a little more quiet time. Also more Si could help young ENFPs in school / improve relationships with (certain) parents.

  5. #165
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamp View Post
    Is the Te Demand potentially independent of tertiary temptation?
    There presumably has to be a place in the scheme of things for non-malignant tertiary usage.

    Consider the idea that ENFPs use a "Get Things Moving" interaction style. One might possibly repackage this as saying ENFPs have just enough Te to start seeing which possibilities could possibly come true SO LET'S HAVE A TRY! This presumably would be Te serving Ne by helping identify those possibilities that lead to more possibilities. (Possibilities that can't come true aren't as exciting to Ne because they're dead ends, whereas possibilities that lead to something happening also lead to more possibilities.) The part where the ENFP says "let's have a try!" is the demand part, demanding presumably that someone work out how to make something come true so that Ne can go on another blitz.

    I do this. I must really mean that I just want a little more quiet time. Also more Si could help young ENFPs in school / improve relationships with (certain) parents.
    Well, presumably wanting a quiet life is something related to wanting time and space to organise introverted feeling (also possibly wanting time and space to avoid too much stuff crowding in and mixing up feeling). But why should an Fi user want that? Couldn't they just go out and out and out on a riotous blaze of high and higher feeling? Why should they want to come down to earth at all?

    It sounds like Si roots. But who knows?

  6. #166
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I only have one stable thing in my life, and when that isn't present I feel like a ship floating about without an anchor. I enjoy being able to retreat to a safe haven and lick my wounds, knowing that I'll have some time, where everything will be non stressy and predictable before facing the storm of life again
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #167
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I only have one stable thing in my life, and when that isn't present I feel like a ship floating about without an anchor. I enjoy being able to retreat to a safe haven and lick my wounds, knowing that I'll have some time, where everything will be non stressy and predictable before facing the storm of life again
    +1
    I think the apparent ENFP-wish for quiet and stable is not a longing to permanently seek shelter from "the storm of life" (great expression, Amargith!) but exactly needing a comforting break at the moments when things get a little too overwhelming or confusing. A whole life lived in the stormless hideaway would make me very restless and unhappy. And scared witless that life was actually already over, but they just forgot to make a public announcement.
    (I've spend the last few months in some kind of hideaway and begin to want to find the exit... arghh...)

    But curious, Amargith:
    What is your one stable thing? Or might it shift too along with the phases of life? (I mean, could the role of stability in principle be occupied by different things as long as there is always one which won't change unless you let it and knows what will take over the role?)

  8. #168
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    +1
    I think the apparent ENFP-wish for quiet and stable is not a longing to permanently seek shelter from "the storm of life" (great expression, Amargith!) but exactly needing a comforting break at the moments when things get a little too overwhelming or confusing. A whole life lived in the stormless hideaway would make me very restless and unhappy. And scared witless that life was actually already over, but they just forgot to make a public announcement.
    (I've spend the last few months in some kind of hideaway and begin to want to find the exit... arghh...)

    But curious, Amargith:
    What is your one stable thing? Or might it shift too along with the phases of life? (I mean, could the role of stability in principle be occupied by different things as long as there is always one which won't change unless you let it and knows what will take over the role?)
    My INTJ
    He's my rock, my anchor. They seriously rule at that. I don't have a career to speak of, I'm still looking to see what I want to make of myself in life, I'm learning, seeking, questing and spreading myself thinly, I live irregularly, to the point where I never get up at the same hour twice in a week, I'm doing 10 different things at the same time...but my love life has been as stable as can be for years now. Yes, we have our moments, times where we too have to weather a storm, but I *will* glady drop everything for him when that need does present itself as he asks so little of me most of the time.

    But I find that as long as we stand together as a team, there's nothing we cannot weather. It's like a safe haven for me, a place I know I'll always find peace, no matter what the world throws at me. Or for that matter, at us.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #169
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    My INTJ
    He's my rock, my anchor. They seriously rule at that. I don't have a career to speak of, I'm still looking to see what I want to make of myself in life, I'm learning, seeking, questing and spreading myself thinly, I live irregularly, to the point where I never get up at the same hour twice in a week, I'm doing 10 different things at the same time...but my love life has been as stable as can be for years now. Yes, we have our moments, times where we too have to weather a storm, but I *will* glady drop everything for him when that need does present itself as he asks so little of me most of the time.

    But I find that as long as we stand together as a team, there's nothing we cannot weather. It's like a safe haven for me, a place I know I'll always find peace, no matter what the world throws at me. Or for that matter, at us.
    nice
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    They routinely make clear claims of a wish for a steady, quiet life. And I'm like, woah, what the--, who--, what's going on here? My hypothesis is that's Si reaching up its staid black tentacles to squeeze Ne/Fi into some kind of realistic shape. In 19-year-olds.
    Is this Te and not Si?
    I thought of this post when I got out of bed this morning. I note some correlation between routine and deep understanding or competency within a subject. So does this young ENFP want to develop something?

    In high school, towards the end of the semester, I would stay after school and study calculus with my teacher. Now that I think about it, I probably wanted to spend more time with a certain female classmate . But, I think I developed my understanding of calculus to the point where I did not learn much if anything from my basic calculus classes in college. The routine played some role in developing my 'deep' understanding and competency.

    This is evident in creative processes too. My favorite work was developed in this way. Successive iterations and refinements of the work were released within the framework of a weekly schedule (every tuesday night we got together and shared).

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