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  1. #151
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Thus, re Si and Se, a theoretical pitfall between ENFPs and INTJs (and presumably ENTJs and INFPs too): bad memories.

    What does an NTJ know of dealing with bad memories? For that matter, what do STJs do in the presence of bad memories?

  2. #152
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Tip: when dealing with NFPs, always make sure you leave a conversation on a good vibe. Otherwise that unpleasant feeling gets stored along with the memory and while the memory itself may fade, the memory of the feeling won't, meaning that next time they think of talking to you, or of you in a similar situation, they won't wanna be near you and they might not even know why = potential avoidance of the unpleasant subject/situation aka you
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    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #153
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    So on the one hand we've got an ENFP avoiding bad memories, and on the other we've got an INTJ for whom memory doesn't exist unless you dig really hard under a bunch of educated intuitions about the future.

    An ISTJ would be all about reconstructing the past in adequate detail and the ENFP would be prompted to spell out more of the memory and it's freight of feeling. What Te's doing at this time is anyone's guess.

    And the INTJ?

    He's got nothing except sitting there watching the ENFP do her thing.

    So... on the lowest end of the conscious scale, INTJs and ENFPs leave each other alone?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    So on the one hand we've got an ENFP avoiding bad memories




    And the INTJ?

    He's got nothing except sitting there watching the ENFP do her thing.

    So... on the lowest end of the conscious scale, INTJs and ENFPs leave each other alone?
    Specifically, it is not memory avoidance but potential avoidance of people or places associated with those memories. However, I am also willing to bring up bad memories with bad-memory-people.

    My INTJ friend gets pushy (Se related I guess?) when we are exhausted from a long conversation, or drinking. This often involves him telling me to act immediately on some of my more outlandish (to me) desires.

    I think he has an easier time enjoying himself in 'normal' situations too. Last night I was upset, I wanted to sit on my ass, brood, and read (TypeC thread backlog :o ). He wanted me to come out and see a movie, I made it clear that I did not really want to go, but I ended up going anyways. We conversed for a while after the movie was over, touching on how I never appear happy and NFP happiness; I had been obviously cold prickly Fi all night. So I asked him, why he thought I should come out after I had made it clear that I did not want to come out, he shrugged and told me he though I would have fun. The night was indeed interesting, so I do not regret going out. (this is all very Si, I have typed out briefly what happened last night but in my head I have gone through a lot of events. The typing (Te?) helps me go through the events, especially when alcohol was involved)

    My ENTJ friend once told me that she dislikes revisiting in conversation, the events of the night prior. When discussing bad events with her, I sometimes hesitate to bring up relevant details because I fear she will drift into ice queen mode before we can conclude anything. I guess some things are only relevant to me personally and do not need to be shared.

    When my INTJ friend tells stories he often tells me alongside the storytelling that the event did not happen that way (but doesnt mention what actually happened ). He is making a point, not telling a story. He often tells me things that are flat-out wrong, or that I misinterpret horribly.











    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I too treasure memories, yes. I have a memory box even. It contains certain items that had significance at the time, but I no longer use. For example, I still have the blouse I was wearing when I met my first boyfriend, the candy bag my russian family gave me for christmas, the sweater this random hot and sweet guy gave me out of the blew (best slowdancer ever ), and when I came back from russia, I wrote down the story of that year, and illustrated it with pictures. I still have that book too. I keep logs of conversations that are important to me, as they trigger the same emotions they triggered back then, with the additional bittersweet bonus of looking back at it from my current perspective.
    I do all this as well.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    I don't really remember or hold on to the past, however, I do build up a network of connections... some of which are feeling based... Bad feelings I avoid. It's not that I remember the past it's just that I don't want the bad feelings to come into my future and avoidance really is my forte I know that it's bad and that I shouldn't do it but I just am able to vanish so well... I;ve like alomst turned into an art form... call me an illusionist!
    ... couldn't drag me away

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  6. #156
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    Don't forget to check out socionics, where INFJs have Fi and Te as well, and INFPs have Fe and Ti. Introverts are reversed in that respect. J means you have a judgment function first and P means you have a perception function. Whereas in MBTI P and J are determined by the direction of the judgment/perception functions.

  7. #157
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    ENFP: the extrovert who needs to shut up

    How interesting. Makes sense though, I tend to be verbally quiet socially. Talking just distracts me from deciding what to do next.

  8. #158
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Reverting back to the topic for a moment, the ENFP Te Demand and how it might be different from Tertiary Temptation...

    Well, there was suggested ENFPs do their best and be their truest selves when keeping true to Ne/Fi. More exactly, using introverted feeling to filter possibilities. But lo, even more exactly, persisting in the process of coming to have introverted feeling be an authentic filter for possibilities. Choosing right from wrong, supporting seen potential to truth and goodness, dividing among the multiple realities until the one is found.

    Ne/Fi will never, ever do that alone.

    Potential needs to ring up on the register of instantiability first (Te) and pass the test of feeling reality (Si). And these two aspects of the truth of Ne/Fi are semi-conscious, not truly open to debate, not until later in life. They are wide open to misuse and misinterpretation, and nonetheless, they grow right along with the growth of Ne/Fi. Indeed, they are essential to that growth.


    Made that up. How do you like it?


    It sort of means the Te Demand is, "When I care about this, it better be made real."


    (And I called Si "feeling reality" because that's what you've all been saying it does for you, transports you back to the feeling, providing the check on what is real.)

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    "When I care about this, it better be made real."


    (And I called Si "feeling reality" because that's what you've all been saying it does for you, transports you back to the feeling, providing the check on what is real.)
    "When I care about this, I need to participate (make it real)" (?)

    I do not think potential needs to pass a test of 'feeling reality'.

    will try and elaborate later

  10. #160
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    I don't really remember or hold on to the past, however, I do build up a network of connections... some of which are feeling based... Bad feelings I avoid. It's not that I remember the past it's just that I don't want the bad feelings to come into my future and avoidance really is my forte I know that it's bad and that I shouldn't do it but I just am able to vanish so well... I;ve like alomst turned into an art form... call me an illusionist!
    Yeah, I relate to this a lot.

    I don't keep much of anything. I'm always moving on to new things.

    I'm an Enneagram type 7, a rolling stone, a traveling bum.

    I love being a husband and father, but my soul always wants to wander.
    __________________


    I'M OUTTA HERE.

    IT'S BEEN FUN.

    TAKE CARE.

    PEACE OUT!!!


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