Being forced to organize the thought, not the inability. So it would be "the frustration with not being able to organize the thought as quickly as others want you to which clouds it even more?"
Ah, gotcha... that makes a lot of sense now. Yeah, I've seen both my sister and my friend start getting flustered when I ask them questions that requires a little more organization in their thoughts. My friend handles it a lot better, and knows I'm just curious. My sister may act like she's being attacked. She KNOWS I ask a lot of questions, but can't really control not getting worked up all that well. That's where that "They confuse objectivity with being blunt or one-up emotionally with others" quote comes in... she sometimes thinks she's being objective when she says something really blunt or sometimes hurtful.
I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.
I have only been able to skim this (helpful :] ) thread but I want to jump in and say some things . . . more later.
Originally Posted by Wonkavision
2. Telling people all the reasons why your Intuitive ideas are great, and how logical they are, and how people just don't appreciate you, and citing examples, and complaining about how controlling and narrow-minded people are when they are not receptive to your ideas.
This is inferior Te throwing Fi overboard and supporting out-of-control Ne.
People with dominant and secondary Te are generally quite adept at organizing the environment to suit reasonable goals.
Inferior Te in ENFPs only thinks it does that well.
ENFPs are better off establishing their own core values, than trying to establish favorable external conditions.
Originally Posted by StephMC939
she sometimes thinks she's being objective when she says something really blunt or sometimes hurtful.
Language, apparent confidence, perceiving nature:
Wonka's quote describes what I have done with my streamlining thread. I enjoy writing in a very precise and analytical manner, and I can see how I can come off much more serious than I actually am. I suggested specific changes because I wanted to prompt discussion, not because I was totally sold on a new layout. I tried to communicate this through my wording, but perhaps my overall tone overpowered that. I did have doubts that my suggested changes were an improvement, but I went ahead and posted anyways -> the discussion would make that clear. But, consistent with the above quote, I can see myself jumping from one point of 'refuge' to another, each 'refuge' being an new point of argument and area for potential improvement.
Arguments/discussions allow me to probe for inconsistencies and develop understanding. They are useful to clarify if and why something is important to me, but I have to be careful not to become reticent and stubborn. Or should I be avoiding arguing? Should I just feel instead?
I have an ISTP roomate/best friend and sister and sometimes they can feel like a string of tiny transgressions against my (petty?) day-to-day Te ideals. If I bring anything up, often their response immediately addresses my concern and I am left wondering why I even brought it up and additionally wondering now how much I have upset them. So when is it 'correct' to defend myself, or to crusade for something? When Fi says to? This seems unfocused at first glance; or should I simply trust in the consistency of Fi? I think this may be complicated additionally by Te's potential to explore Fi.
Originally Posted by lamp
^^^yeah, act how you want. You will probably still end up making INTJ-style quips and comments
quieter people are usually harder to observe/approach
I can be miserable in casual social situations. bedtime . . . too tired to manage my post
So what happened here? I wanted to promote development and be useful, but did not have the time to 'properly' Te everything out, but I wanted post anyways, so now am left with some cute, unfocused and marginally useful post. If I had taken the time to refine the post and expand on my ideas (Te), would I have ended up with some flawed, prescriptive argument?
So why archetype of crusader, or champion (we seem to be concluding here that that these are too overbearing)? Is this descriptive or prescriptive; what does an 'ideally developed' ENFP look like, stereotypically?
So the outward anger could be the frustration with not being able to organize the thought which clouds it even more?
Normally this is a result of hurt emo for me. You have poked me way deep somehow to genereate the rage response if you see it within sa few seconds to minutes of the "insult".
You can also a longer lasting response if you insult an idealistic cause that Fi believes in. However typically society calls this "passion" rather than rage. I will passionately defend a cause and I will come across verbally as very engaged and it can have an emotional component-I care very much about that cause.
Wonka today I tried to cut off Fi and just be an NeTe machine of domination. It doesnt work if I have no Fi attachment. With no Fi motivation-if I do not care-then I cant take over the world and dominate it.
Instead I just dont give a fuck and will let the ship sink around me. Meh, just a ship... My guess is that FiTe have to balance. I need to emotionally buy into what I am trying to structure with Te. Then I can use Te strongly to push forward and let Fi be a deep river that I check for orientation now and then.
So little chance of evil NeTe monsters taking over the world.
This is the way I SEE IT--and I refuse to debate it.
Comment all you want, but I will probably not respond.
Is this the raised eyebrow smilie -
I am confused by your language above. Do you feel attacked in this thread? I feel like you express yourself very well, but when others open up with their own thoughts, you appear to become defensive, and tend to close off. I've noticed it in other threads on occasion.
Personally I hope you continue to add your input. Agreeing or not agreeing with it is irrelevant. Everyone has interesting and contemplative thoughts to share. So please share yours; don't worry if others debate it or even flagrantly oppose it.
^^ how come istp guys aren't that expressive? huh? huh? ^^
I think its a comfort thing. Guys arent supposed to have emotions. So I dont know how to show them. I am better at writing about them.
Originally Posted by Amargith
I love that the ISTPs got into this thread. Can I ask why ISTPs enjoy this thread? *curious look*
Honestly you wear what you want and need on the outside. You are so open that you dont have to be read into, just listened to and watched. Despite the complicated, wishy-washy, emo nature NFPs see in themselves you truly are simple people. We are a type who can seperate the simplicity of Fi with the complexity of Ne.