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[Fe] Fe and how it works

Orangey

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People will be surprised by the info I mention to them years later, they say "You remember that?"

I do that a lot. Even if I could care less about the person. I remember what they say to me, almost verbatim. As you can imagine, this can work well for you when you want to make someone look stupid.
 

Orangey

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i absolutely care, and i care intensely in that moment. my whole world in that moment is that one other person and as long as they are talking about something real, i am immensely into it and them

Perhaps I didn't explain it well, but part of what I was trying to talk about was this temporal aspect of interaction. In the moment, I do care enough to continue conversation (and enjoy it immensely). If I didn't, or if it was just small talk, I could care less and probably wouldn't engage in interaction.

My point was that I don't need a personal history or an inventory of special feelings racked up in order to feel like I care enough about a person to have an enjoyable conversation with them. I thought that was Fe, but perhaps I am completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
 

Lauren Ashley

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I do that a lot. Even if I could care less about the person. I remember what they say to me, almost verbatim. As you can imagine, this can work well for you when you want to make someone look stupid.

Lol, yes. That too.

But I question if what I do is Fe, or a combination of high Ni + Fe-Ti, or something that can't be parsed with functions at all.

this is insightful and you get an A for effort but i don't recognize this as Fe, for me, at all. i absolutely care, and i care intensely in that moment. my whole world in that moment is that one other person and as long as they are talking about something real, i am immensely into it and them, but if it's too much work, or they are small-talkers, i'm gonna be nice but go find someone more interesting to talk to.
Hmmm...you must be my subtype of INFJ.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Perhaps I didn't explain it well, but part of what I was trying to talk about was this temporal aspect of interaction. In the moment, I do care enough to continue conversation (and enjoy it immensely). If I didn't, or if it was just small talk, I could care less and probably wouldn't engage in interaction.

My point was that I don't need a personal history or an inventory of special feelings racked up in order to feel like I care enough about a person to have an enjoyable conversation with them. I thought that was Fe, but perhaps I am completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

hmm. i don't either. when you have a half hour conversation with someone you obviously can't get their entire history. :)

but this is different than what you said earlier, and i understood you perfectly, i thought. Fe seems like it's 'going through the motions' to be nice. that's kind-of what the literature says. but for me, it's really genuine. not just the motions. anyone can be nice. if i'm talking intently to you, i really dig you in that moment, and want the best for you, and want to find out about you. i'm not thinking anything bad about you at all probably. it's very deep. i think deeper than most people converse. i lean toward you, i hate to have our attention drawn away. i want to really get into it with you. that's me anyway.

and how can you ever be wrong? you're intp for gosh sakes!
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Lol, yes. That too.

But I question if what I do is Fe, or a combination of high Ni + Fe-Ti, or something that can't be parsed with functions at all.


Hmmm...you must be my subtype of INFJ.

:blush: :wubbie:
 

Lauren Ashley

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but this is different than what you said earlier, and i understood you perfectly, i thought. Fe seems like it's 'going through the motions' to be nice. that's kind-of what the literature says. but for me, it's really genuine. not just the motions. anyone can be nice. if i'm talking intently to you, i really dig you in that moment, and want the best for you, and want to find out about you. i'm not thinking anything bad about you at all probably. it's very deep. i think deeper than most people converse. i lean toward you, i hate to have our attention drawn away. i want to really get into it with you. that's me anyway.

I do think Orangey's example can apply to many FJs, if not you and I. My mother and sister are ESFJ and ENFJ, respectively, and they both have this Oprah-esque style of relating.
 

proteanmix

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RE the temporal aspect of Fe: I agree with orangey about the temporal aspect of Fe now that she clarified. Sometimes I think when people start talking about this, if they identify with it, there's a false association with shallowness or superficiality. I don't deny that in most of my casual interactions I can coast on that. It's like vodka and red bull for me, I enjoy it.

I don't extend that temporal feeling towards people that are close to me and that I care about. I make a distinction about the depth and quality of the relationship with people I get real with. That same shot that carried me through in casually isn't satisfying in a more intimate relationship.

i can try. i am an aux Fe and i'm still fairly new to mbti. i just focus on people. my focus is people and i notice their body language so i can tell how they are feeling. i subconsciously take in their inflection or tone to clue me in to how they might be feeling. what they say means something and i while i might forget or not hear details of what someone is saying, i am taking the essence of them in on a deeper level and just feeling them almost. i don't know why i use it. by now, i am used to how it feels. i align myself with the person i am speaking with, or interacting with, and i focus all of my energy on them. i can completely tune everything else out, and do. i notice nothing else. you have my complete attention, when i am at my norm or best, that is. it is very trustworthy for me, but sometimes i can use intuition too loosely and make false assumptions with Fe. i feel it very deeply. i use Te too (aux/tert) but it feels efficient and methodical and tiring.

This but add I have a general patience towards small talk.

I like "small talk" with another experienced Fe-user because it's not really small talk/chit chat at all, it's very much like superior volleying skills. I think most people are afraid of small talk because they don't know how to use it effectively to deepen bonds, they just think of it as talking about the weather and something to dread when getting in a elevator with another person. Using small talk as an example, when I'm Fe-ing I make the subject matter something general that everyone can talk about or join in on, which some people view as vapid. I mean think about the reasons you don't like small talk. I guess this is why I'm just over talking about Fe with people on the forum because the mechanisms through which Fe generally works are always bashed to bits.

I really think Fidelia had the simplest way of describing Fe. How do you make people feel comfortable? It seems like the same things that make people feel comfortable, i.e. small talk, also makes them feel uncomfortable. I mean take these phrases I use daily:

"So how are you today?"
"How was your weekend?"
"How do you feel?"
"I like your _______"
"You look great today!"
"Oh, don't worry about it, I think you did fine."
"What do you think about _______?"
"What are you doing this weekend?/Let's hang out"
"Are you OK?"

Notice how everything I wrote is basically a crowbar. Either you're receptive or you're not and if you're not I'm that annoying Fe-person who won't leave you alone. :hi: For me, Fe attempts to find commonalities between people to help us recognize our similarities and I need an in. My in is to be interested in other people.

i can manipulate with it, sometimes unintentionally. sometimes i can think i know better than someone what they need, especially someone not in tune with their feelings/emotions. then i can use Fe subtley to manipulate someone into a course of action. i didn't really know i did this until i thought about it after i discovered the Fe function and reading about it on here. i try not to do this anymore, but it can be almost a habit sometimes. not majorly, but in little ways.

Yeah this too.
 

Fidelia

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Yes! All of that is reflective of me. The crowbar comparison is funny, but apt.

And it's not that I have no interest in the person I'm talking to. It's just that I emotionally invest differently depending on how close a person is to me.
 

Lauren Ashley

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I really think Fidelia had the simplest way of describing Fe. How do you make people feel comfortable? It seems like the same things that make people feel comfortable, i.e. small talk, also makes them feel uncomfortable. I mean take these phrases I use daily:

"So how are you today?"
"How was your weekend?"
"How do you feel?"
"I like your _______"
"You look great today!"
"Oh, don't worry about it, I think you did fine."
"What do you think about _______?"
"What are you doing this weekend?/Let's hang out"
"Are you OK?"
I hate all of these phrases, with a passion.

Unless I get the sense that the person really does care, when someone approaches me in this way, I'll give a quick reply and roll my eyes nearly out of my head when they're gone.
 

Orangey

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I hate all of these phrases, with a passion.

Unless I get the sense that the person really does care, when someone approaches me in this way, I'll give a quick reply and roll my eyes nearly out of my head when they're gone.

Well then it's not a function of the phrases themselves, but rather the attitude of the person employing them. I do not have a problem with someone asking me how my day/weekend was, even if they don't expect a full account of how it really was. The act of reaching out to me is enough to tell me that they at least care enough to make the effort. Small talk, to me, is unnecessary conversation for the sake of conversation. Like when someone just has this need to talk even though there is no exigence that calls for talking. In those cases, people start to talk about B.S. like the weather or celebrity news, and it just gets boring.

Even between my friends and I, we often start out conversations with the typical "how are you doing?" It signifies a sort of politeness that lets us all know that we're operating on the same level of respect. In tense and competitive situations, that kind of respect starts to mean a lot.
 

Fidelia

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What Orangey said.

Asking these questions are ways to show that I actually truly do care. It's a way of testing the waters. People then can go as shallow or deep as they like with it after that. What would you prefer for people to do?
 

proteanmix

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Yes! All of that is reflective of me. The crowbar comparison is funny, but apt.

And it's not that I have no interest in the person I'm talking to. It's just that I emotionally invest differently depending on how close a person is to me.

Oh and there's the reverse crowbar which is when I begin the whole process of prying (please think of that word neutrally) by starting about myself.

"You won't believe what happened to me!"
"Let me tell you..."
"The end is near, the end is near! Blah blah blah."

Once again, you can possibly run afoul of the "It's all about me" problem, when people misinterpret your prompt for them to self-disclose via your self-disclosure.

What I do notice with most FJs (I don't know where TPs fall in their usage of Fe) is social practicality. For right now, the best way I can describe it is knowing which side you bread is buttered on, generally knowing where you stand in relation to others/where they stand in relation to you, and the group dynamics involved to move you from point A to point T. I feel like when I'm talking to other FJs (doesn't matter if they're SFJs or NFJs) who share the same concepts of social relationships that I do, there's less explaining why mechanics of this and that is important than I do with other types.

I will never forget when I started that thread about my friend's who was basically told in so many words to get a piece of cake for a director that is not her boss and how demeaning she felt that was. Many people were like, what's the big deal, get the cake, like it was just about a piece of cake. I understood why she felt that way (I'm sure others did too) and why that was such an affront to her and she felt like a bimbo, like it was 1955 or something.
 

Lauren Ashley

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Well then it's not a function of the phrases themselves, but rather the attitude of the person employing them. I do not have a problem with someone asking me how my day/weekend was, even if they don't expect a full account of how it really was. The act of reaching out to me is enough to tell me that they at least care enough to make the effort. Small talk, to me, is unnecessary conversation for the sake of conversation. Like when someone just has this need to talk even though there is no exigence that calls for talking. In those cases, people start to talk about B.S. like the weather or celebrity news, and it just gets boring.
It's absolutely the attitude. The way protean mentioned it, it seemed like the "going through the motions" kind of prompts that people try to engage me in when I go to work in the morning. I know these people don't really care about the responses to my questions.

Even between my friends and I, we often start out conversations with the typical "how are you doing?" It signifies a sort of politeness that lets us all know that we're operating on the same level of respect. In tense and competitive situations, that kind of respect starts to mean a lot.
Ha, with my close friends, I don't start off with any kind of introduction. If I have something to say or I want to ask them something, I just dive right in.
 

Orangey

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The way protean mentioned it, it seemed like the "going through the motions" kind of prompts that people try to engage me in when I go to work in the morning. I know these people don't really care about the responses to my questions.

Right, but then you have to ask yourself, should they care? And if so, why? And if they don't really have any reason to care, would you rather have them give you the cold shoulder, or would you rather have them say something pleasant, even if it's emotionally meaningless? I'd prefer the latter.

Ha, with my close friends, I don't start off with any kind of introduction. If I have something to say or I want to ask them something, I just dive right in.

I am around a lot of strongly Fe type folks :D. I had one friend tell me, when I turned down her offer of bowling one night, that instead of simply saying that I don't feel like it, I should have come up with some legitimate excuse for why I couldn't come, even if it wasn't true. Maybe she is unhinged. I don't know, hehe.

And proteanmix, I never encountered that thread about the cake, but after reading the scenario, I can certainly agree that it was weird for the other guy to ask for cake. It's like at this one job that I had in college. My duties were to edit video programs for the city broadcasting network (so stupid stuff like local sports games, city council meetings, etc.,), and on one occasion the station director asked me to get him coffee. I balked because of what it would have signified, appearance wise, about my gender, position, and all sorts of other things. He didn't ask me again. Now, one could say that I was being oversensitive, but I was the only female that worked there, I was busy doing my job, and there were at least three other people equally as busy as I was. Why did he ask me?
 

Lauren Ashley

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Right, but then you have to ask yourself, should they care? And if so, why? And if they don't really have any reason to care, would you rather have them give you the cold shoulder, or would you rather have them say something pleasant, even if it's emotionally meaningless? I'd prefer the latter.

They don't have to care. Saying nothing at all would be preferable, actually. I rather enjoy silence unless something more imperative needs to be said. Being "pleasant" doesn't mean much to me. I know, I'm an Fe failure.
 

entropie

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You're still going on about this one ? Man you got issues
 

proteanmix

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...I balked because of what it would have signified, appearance wise, about my gender, position, and all sorts of other things. He didn't ask me again. Now, one could say that I was being oversensitive, but I was the only female that worked there, I was busy doing my job, and there were at least three other people equally as busy as I was. Why did he ask me?

Yeah, and maybe other people can chime in, but a lot of my Fe is centered around that type of thinking as well. I don't find that oversensitive, that's the social awareness I was talking about, but that may not even be Fe. I know I'm not oblivious to how things come across and how they can be interpreted and the ramifications of the interpretation(s).
 

Orangey

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They don't have to care. Saying nothing at all would be preferable, actually. I rather enjoy silence unless something more imperative needs to be said. Being "pleasant" doesn't mean much to me. I know, I'm an Fe failure.

I don't know. If I get onto the elevator going to my department, say, and I encounter one of the professors on my committee, I expect to be acknowledged. It gets to be one of those things where, yeah, I know they don't really care how I'm doing (or at least I assume as much because I don't really care how they're doing, and they don't know me well enough to care anyways), but it means a LOT more if they don't say anything at all. It is disrespect.
 

Lauren Ashley

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I don't know. If I get onto the elevator going to my department, say, and I encounter one of the professors on my committee, I expect to be acknowledged. It gets to be one of those things where, yeah, I know they don't really care how I'm doing (or at least I assume as much because I don't really care how they're doing, and they don't know me well enough to care anyways), but it means a LOT more if they don't say anything at all. It is disrespect.

If I know the person somewhat well, a simple acknowledgment like "Hey," is fine. All the queries like "What are you doing this weekend? and "Did you hear the thunder last night?" are highly unnecessary, to me. But that's just me; idle chatter bugs me to no end.
 

proteanmix

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If I know the person somewhat well, a simple acknowledgment like "Hey," is fine. All the queries like "What are you doing this weekend? and "Did you hear the thunder last night?" are highly unnecessary, to me. But that's just me; idle chatter bugs me to no end.

Why do you think it's idle? Would I be better off asking how many people you've slept with?
 
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